Using AI To Write Amazon Listings w/ Britton Upchurch – #53

Ben Donovan  00:00
Hey folks! Welcome to another episode of The Brand Builder Show. Today’s episode, as always is going to be a good one but particularly this one because we’re talking about a really on-trend topic and that is AI we’re going to be talking about how AI can help you, right Amazon listings grow your business. It’s going to be a fun one.  Before we do get into the episode, I just do want to remind you, we announced last week that we just launched a new course inside of Brand Builder University called Exit Engine taught by Ben Leonard, the founder of Beast Gear. And and if you want to check that out, make sure you do because the 50% offer is running out in a few days. So check that out, the link will be in the description below.  But today’s episode is like I said, it’s gonna be really good one. We got Britton from Perci. Britton, great to have you on the show today!
 
Britton Upchurch  00:42
Ben, thanks for having me. Good to be here.
 
Ben Donovan  00:44
I’m very excited to talk about this topic. It’s been something that has been all over my Twitter feed for, you know, several weeks. I’ve been a little bit sort of quiet on Twitter because we’ve just been super busy. But it’s, every time I seem to go on there. It’s, you know, AI, this chat GPT that and, you know, I feel like if I were to mute Chat GPT on my Twitter, feed right now it would be just Tumbleweed. Nothing going on. Because there’s so many threads about it and talking about it. But it’s, it’s good, right? Because it is that the world is changing. Your business is not going to look like how it does now in 10 years time.  And I think what’s exciting about this conversation today is you’re on the cutting edge of that you’re building something really exciting with AI, which we will get into. But before we do that, why don’t you just give us the elevator pitch of your background, what you’ve been up to where you’ve come from, and bring us up to date with with what you’re up to now.
 
Britton Upchurch  01:39
The elevator pitch, okay. So my background is in copywriting. I’ve been a copywriter for seven or eight years now working at ad agencies and startups and everything in between. And the path from there is I used to do listings on nights and weekends, I used to be on Fiverr and Upwork, writing listings for whoever would hire me to do it. And as you probably know, you’ve written some listings yourself. And when you have a lot of listings to write, after a while, that gets really tedious and your brain starts to get tired. And you just can’t think of a 15th way to describe one different colored jewelry necklace or something.  So after a while, I thought there’s got to be a better way to do this. And this was right around the time that AI language generation was was was just coming into its own. This is like four or five years ago. So I got really interested in that. I taught myself to code AI models and train them. I taught myself to build web apps. And I built Perci, which is basically using AI to help people write Amazon listings. And that’s yeah, that’s now we’re here. Yeah, that makes it sound a lot more simple than it is.
 
Ben Donovan  02:56
Yeah, that’s it. It always sounds less stressful. And like there’s less challenges when you give a recap. And as what I find about nostalgia as well. When I look back, I think of all the good things, but you forget about all of the hard times that were part of making that happen. But But no, it’s good. Thank you for that summary, we’re going to dive into what Perci is in and get a bit of a look behind the curtain as such, which I’m really looking forward to. Excuse me.  Before we do that, just to get to know you a bit more, I suppose. We do this slot called favorite five where we ask each guest their favorite of these five topics that you know our audience are going to be interested in. And it’s things that we’re all in the mix with. And and so we’re going to sort of quick fire through those. So I’d love to ask you.  Number one, what is your favorite e-commerce brand right now?
 
Britton Upchurch  03:55
As a copywriter, an advertising copywriter, I have to say, Nike, there. You might not think of them as an e-commerce brand as such, but every commerce brand is now an E-commerce brand. And they still do really amazing ad creative just in everything they do. So if anyone out there is listening and they want to get some great examples of copywriting or design, go look at what Nike does, and you can’t go too long.
 
Ben Donovan  04:26
Yeah, absolutely. I’m a big fan of Shoe Dog. Phil Knight’s sort of memoir. Yeah, I saw recently they’re doing a Film A film about it. So Ben Affleck is going to be in that it’d be it’d be fun if you’d want to look out for for all you brand builders out there. Okay, number two, your favorite software or tool that helps you run your business on life.
 
Britton Upchurch  04:49
Favorite software tool that helps you run my business or life right now your own of course. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. This is this sounds simple, but it’s got to be email. Okay. I use actually use a sort of obscure email service called private mail, which is just connected to my domain hosting. But, but Gmail has got to be the best business tool that was ever created.
 
Ben Donovan  05:17
Yes, good is really good. Yeah. No, no, it’s good. The boring boring works. Favorite organic marketing channel.
 
Britton Upchurch  05:28
Direct Sales. This is that’s probably for, maybe for brand builders out there. That is a great way to get started with, with maybe not with, if you’re if your end goal is to build an Amazon brand, that that might not be the most helpful thing but but actually going out and talking to people one on one has been an amazing thing to learn what people really want, as well as to hone exactly what I’m doing and what my value proposition is.
 
Ben Donovan  05:57
That’s really good. Solving problems is the foundation of any successful brand, isn’t it? So yeah. Favorite paid marketing channel. If you’ve dabbled too much with those.
 
Britton Upchurch  06:10
I’m gonna say PPC, I’m still very new to it. But I think that can be a really amazing way to to move fast. Maybe not move fast and break things, but hopefully move fast.
 
Ben Donovan  06:22
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. With the search intent is, yeah, it’s very good. Good. Okay. And then lastly, your favorite business book.
 
Britton Upchurch  06:30
Lean Startup.
 
Ben Donovan  06:34
Eric, Eric, something great.
 
Britton Upchurch  06:36
Eric, Eric Ries, I think his name is I’m not quite sure if you if you look up lean startup. It’s it’s a huge book for for any kind of technology or software. And it sort of has lessons for anyone who’s trying to make something, make something new or build any kind of business. It’s an amazing framework.
 
Ben Donovan  06:59
You’re using the frameworks to build personally No,
 
Britton Upchurch  07:03
I do. Yeah. It’s it actually gets very tactical, which I like, it’s there’s a lot of business books that make these huge, grandiose theories and mental frameworks to, you know, turn you into a superstar. But a lot of them don’t get very practical in terms of step one, step two, step three, and it really gives you easy steps that you can take yourself. Yeah, that scale up, you know, you can you can use it the whole the whole way through.
 
Ben Donovan  07:30
Yeah, that’s good. Good stuff yet. No, I did read about it. I did read the book actually, a number of years ago, but it was very sort of technology, sort of I found your focus. So there’s some great stuff in there. Maybe not fully relevant to me at that time. But yeah, it was a great book and very, very highly recommended in the business community. So yeah. Sorry about that book. Yeah, absolutely. Good stuff. Okay. Well, thank you for answering those. Thank you for humoring me and
 
Britton Upchurch  08:01
that’s fine. That’s great.
 
Ben Donovan  08:03
A couple of sort of distinct angles, almost like two rivers that are going to join up down down the river when we get towards the end of the episode. One is copywriting. One is AI and then you know, bringing together given your experience with copywriting you know, initially in your career, let’s start there. And you know, broad strokes what are the keys to being a good copywriter? What are some of the fundamentals that people need to know someone wants to write better listings at the very basic level or they want to try and make a career of being a copywriter? Because, you know, you mentioned like their copywriters, Apple their copywriters probably make an absolute fortune because they they’re writing copy that is converting, you know, so much volume of sales. So there’s incredible potential out there but what are the foundations of being good at copywriting?
 
Britton Upchurch  08:57
Their their sort of general copywriting tactics that are helpful to anyone writing anything whether it’s an Amazon listing, a banner ad, a radio ad for Nike or Apple or a billboard. Probably the biggest one is to write like you speak. So if you look at Apple or Nike, or or even, you know, great well written Amazon listings, what they don’t do is write in overly formal language that you wouldn’t use in a conversation and and one of the first things that that I usually tell Junior copywriters, for instance, is the more that you can write in a natural way that sounds like you would, you would something that you would actually say, if you can just write that down, it’s probably going to sound better than, than what you sit there and think about and overthink about and labor over. So number one is writing like you speak. Number two is to always edit, editing is actually where Writing and Editing is worrying. Okay, writing becomes good writing and good writing becomes great writing. Number three, I’d say is don’t overuse exclamation points. So that’s a big thing that a lot of people do when they don’t feel very confident in their writing, they think add an exclamation point is going to make it, you know, perfect or something. That’s, that’s a, that’s just something that you see a lot with, with people who aren’t trained writers. When it comes to Amazon listings, things get a lot more tactical. So the trick to writing an Amazon listings is there actually there’s there’s two parts to it. The first is SEO. And the second is the actual persuasive writing itself. So so the key for someone who’s new to writing an Amazon listing is to understand that first, you need to have keyword phrases, search terms that you’re going to put into your listing, all throughout your listing, they’re going to go in your title, they’re going to go in your bullets, you’re going to have back in search terms that you’re going to put at the bottom. And the purpose of those is to tell Amazon’s algorithm that when people search these terms, I want my listing to be associated with those terms. So if if I am making a listing for a Bluetooth microphone, I would want search terms like YouTube streamer gaming, Zoom meetings, use cases, it might be wireless microphone, it might be quality, sound quality microphone, these search terms that people look up, they need to be in your listing, or people just won’t find the product you have. So if you don’t have the SEO side of your listing, locked up, you could write the most persuasive, benefits driven listing that was ever written and no one would ever see it. So that’s that’s one part. And there’s a lot of of how tos about that you’ve got a great one yourself, Ben about how to find great keywords and integrate them into your listing. The second part is once you have your your SEO research, then you need to write a listing that not only satisfies all of Amazon’s formatting, so there are things like character limits for titles there are formatting specifics that Amazon likes. There are bullet styles that Amazon likes and doesn’t like they’re restricted to keywords. So there are a lot of finicky rules. I’m making the sound a lot more. I’m making the sound impossible people do it every day. It’s not it’s not the end of the world. But there’s all that is to say you have to do your research. And then you take that, and then you use those keywords to write your listing.
 
Ben Donovan  12:43
Yep, that’s really good. You mentioned about editing, being one of your keys, and I think for excuse me, for Amazon listings, sales, copy, whatever it is, I think that’s a massive, massive key because I know that the easiest part of writing an Amazon listing, for example, is doing the keyword research. And and kind of getting the first ideas down on the page. The hard bit is you that final 20% That makes it read well include the right keywords, and enough of the keywords, but not too many and too many of the same keywords so that you can use different variations, et cetera, et cetera, you know, that the first bit is easiest. And then it’s the next bit that takes up a lot that time. Particularly as well, even with the sales copy as well is something that you you mentioned about editing. It has your process because I’ve heard people talk about how you know, when you’re writing, you should just write just get in the flow of writing, write a listing, write an email, write your website, copy, and then come back and edit or you have the mindset of right I’m going to make everything sound great as I go and do it bit by bit. How do you kind of went with that?
 
Britton Upchurch  13:57
The the answer that no one wants to hear is is it depends on how good a writer you are. But the process. The best way to do it if if you aren’t sure how to write is absolutely get everything out. When you’re feeling creative, especially when you have a blank page or you’re just getting started. Sometimes you might not even know exactly where you’re going. But writing is a process and absolutely the first step is to get all of your thoughts out. Don’t pay attention to mistakes or spelling errors or anything like that. Just just go and be creative and get all your concepts out and then go back. Once you’ve gotten most of what you want. Go back and organize and restructure and and whether you’re right whether it’s sales copy, it could be an email, it could be a press release, it could be your Amazon listings, you’ll find that the process of writing is itself finding out exactly what you want to say. One great tip for editing is to read your writing out loud if you You read what you’ve written out loud, you’ll often find better ways to say things or you’ll you’ll spot mistakes that you may have have not seen the first time reading out loud is a great way to edit through and refine the writing that you’ve already done. Yeah,
 
Ben Donovan  15:15
I’m consistently amazed at how we default to saying more than we need to add filler words and your read back something I’m like, why is that so long that there could be so much more brevity there? And I forget who it is. There’s a famous quote, isn’t there about a copywriter that says, you know, I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn’t have time. Something like that, you know, it’s because it’s actually harder work to get things more compact, more concise. And especially with an Amazon listing, that becomes become so important, doesn’t it?
 
Britton Upchurch  15:48
Oh, yeah. It’s one thing that I learned as a copywriter is it seems hard at first. And I think people get really intimidated by writing, which is understandable. For instance, I’m, I’m a terrible designer, and I get really intimidated by design problems. But it’s a muscle. So the more that you do it, the better you get. And one way that one way to always keep improving is just read great writing. So you might not think this applies to Amazon listings. But if you go read John Steinbeck, you’ll become a better writer guaranteed.
 
Ben Donovan  16:25
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, good tips, good tips. Obviously, your tool, an AI and everything that will kind of discuss that other stream, as I mentioned, is an attempt to solve some of these issues with how hard it can be to write and to get the first ideas down on paper. And, you know, to get that flow going. And so we’ll talk about the tool in a minute. But just generally with AI, things are going crazy with with AI right now, as we mentioned, you know, so much talk about it inherently is a good or bad thing. What how do you how do you feel the next 510 years looks with the development of AI?
 
Britton Upchurch  17:00
I think it looks amazing. It’s been fascinating to see how much ChatGPT has, has brought this out in people. I mean, you mentioned that you see it a lot on Twitter on social media. I was on a trip in New Zealand last week, in the South Island on a bus with two other people. And what did they talk about? ChatGPT.
 
Ben Donovan  17:31
So it’s gonna match mainstream,
 
Britton Upchurch  17:33
it really has. And I think the reason for that is just that finally, people have an easy way to see for themselves, just how amazing the technology is. It’s been interesting to me to see the explosion of excitement, because in a lot of ways, ChatGPT is actually not much of a leap. It’s actually not a leap in the AI engine at all. That same engine has been in Perci for about a year now. But what’s changed is now suddenly everyone has a way they can go and try it out themselves and, and ask it a question or tell it to do something and see just how amazing it is. Yeah, so as far as a tool goes, I mean, everyone’s says, Oh, I used it to write a letter to my grandma, or to make a job posting for dog walker. It’s It’s amazing technology. So my overall answer is good. What do you think then?
 
Ben Donovan  18:26
Yeah, no, I think it’s good. I think obviously, it’s definitely scary, because it’s not scary. But I think whenever something like that does become mainstream, it does make you think about the future of business, you know, will things look the way they look in the future and it does threaten some industries, more than others and, you know, some job sort of industries that more than others, but I think that if you’re an entrepreneur, I think it is overwhelming and exciting because it presents opportunities, you know, it’s incredible again, I mentioned Twitter a lot but I think there’s just a lot of good people and good interaction on there. And you know, I’ve seen you know, like guys on there create sort of like AI avatar software that you know, suddenly makes six figures overnight. There’s this one guy SEO guy on Twitter that’s got this tool is made called gift asst and I think it’s like such a such a good execution of using AI to build just a simple little thing where he’s built his website that’s obviously just plugged into the, you know, the open AI API. And you asks you a few questions about the person you know, that you want to buy gift for, you know, their gender and what the occasion is and what they like and then it pumps out a load of gift ideas for you, you know, if you’re struggling to come up with an idea, gives you 20 ideas of what you could buy them for their for their birthday, and then it gives the links to go and buy them and he’s obviously set up an Amazon Associates account so he’s only commission from those sales and it’s, it’s just genius, you know, and he kind of executed overnight. Brilliant, and I think that’s what What’s exciting about it is it’s gonna really give true entrepreneurs an opportunity to, you know, quickly innovate and execute and, you know, build some cool stuff. So it’s, I think, yeah, overwhelmingly exciting.
 
Britton Upchurch  20:12
I think a lot of people have the tendency to, to think about, first what they’re scared of. So oh, if I’m, if I’m a script writer, oh, is this thing gonna make my job obsolete, or people are not going to hire me because they’re going to use this tool instead. But I think the more likely scenario is is how AI is going to help you. So whatever you’re doing, whether you’re building an Amazon brand, or I think, in some ways that people probably don’t expect, there’s going to be a lot of new tools that are powered, not just by, you know, the jet GPT AI engine, but image generation, problem solving like this, there’s real creative logic that AI has that that’s going to be really useful. And none of us can really know even what you know, a year from now is going to look like but it’s opening up a whole new horizon of ways that people can do more with less work, which is Yeah, for sure. Really going to, it’s going to be amazing.
 
Ben Donovan  21:19
Definitely, definitely. Yeah. And I think there are people that would disagree with me for you know, different worldviews or whatever, but there’s no way AI is going to fully replace everything a human could do, obviously, because, you know, a robot doesn’t have a soul limit how much you train his algorithm. And, you know, there’s so many different things in there. That’s the nuances that it but it is going to change a lot of industries, and there are going to be a lot of things that are sped up and, you know, yeah, I’m excited to be more efficient. So it’s good. But obviously, speaking of which Amazon listings this brilliant sort of in really like, Can AI write a good Amazon listing? I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
 
Britton Upchurch  21:58
The answer is yes, the answer is yes, it can. A lot of So, so, language generation is the most topical thing at the moment, maybe that image generation. language generation has only really come come to maturity in the last two years or so. But the great thing about Amazon listings, for instance, is when you have a couple of product details, when you have the keywords that you need. AI is really good at creating all the content that you need really quickly. It’s, it’s not to the point where I’d say guaranteed, it’s going to be the best listing that you could you could ever create. But it’s going to be a huge enabler for people. So whereas a listing would have taken you an hour minimum to write if you are an experienced listing writer. If you’re not, it might take you two or three, it might take a day. Now AI can can get you a full listing with all the content that you need. And, you know, one, two minutes. And the great thing about that is all those rules that I mentioned before about say how Amazon has character limits for titles and formatting rules that they need and words that they don’t allow, or words that they must see in their AI allows you to bake those things in. So suddenly, there’s less of a barrier to entry for small sellers, mid sellers, even people who don’t want to go to the effort of learning all those weird rules that Amazon has. Now with AI, with some extra stuff built into it, we can make that work a lot easier for people.
 
Ben Donovan  23:43
Yeah. And you’ve been, as you said, building proceed to be a solution to this problem of the difficulty of writing Amazon listings that are both SEO driven and primed to convert. And so you mentioned about being able to give us a bit of a demo of it, which I think would be a great you know, now it’d be a good sort of segue into that and what anybody is listening on audio, which is sort of the bulk of the podcast audience I definitely would encourage you to check this one out on YouTube because I’ve seen I’ve been chatting to Britain a bit and I’ve seen the inside of Perci and there’s some some great things in here but but I haven’t sort of seemed like a full walkthrough like we’re about to see. And so I know the potential of it and he’s sort of been chatting to me about some of the features and so I’m really excited to see see what this thing can do really and see how how this can help Amazon sellers, copywriters, agency owners really grow their their output so so Yeah, talk us through I see it on the screen now and we will try and talk it through if anyone’s listening on audio that can’t make it to the video. Like I said try and make it to the video but if you can’t see in what we see in Perci in front of us now.
 
Britton Upchurch  24:57
So this is pretty simple. app really, there’s a couple of input areas here, you can put in your product name, there’s an area to put in any product details and says, Tell us about your product. This is for any kind of distinguishing features, particularly anything that’s unique about your product that you certainly want to bring out in your listing. It’s also for any kind of specs for specifics, maybe it’s maybe you’re selling a packet for six or different colors that can all go in there. And then there’s a bunch of extra knobs that you can tweak to get the listing that you want, including an input area for SEO keywords, we can talk about that a little bit. There’s every marketplace language you want. So if you write in German, or Spanish or French, you can do that in here as well. There’s tone of voice options. So there’s a bunch of different options you can play with. And then you hit go and then in a few seconds, outcomes, your listing on the other side.
 
Ben Donovan  25:56
Very cool. Very cool. Let’s, let’s give it a spin, shall we? Take it, let’s
 
Britton Upchurch  26:00
do it so and so what I love to do is just to put people on the spot and say, Tell me a product you can think of off the top of your head and let’s make a listing for it.
 
Ben Donovan  26:11
For me, it’s always the yoga mat. The yoga mat is the go to every kind of tutorial, I’d seem to go back to the yoga mat, and it gets me a bit of stick from our Brand Builder University community. So that’s okay. Why, why why change now? Let’s go yoga mat.
 
Britton Upchurch  26:27
Oh, yeah. All right. So we’ll do we’ll do a yoga mat. I’m gonna type yoga mat in there. What are some things about this yoga mat that make it distinctive?
 
Ben Donovan  26:36
Oh, loads. Of course, it’s got to be an extra thick yoga mat. Extra Thick yoga mat. It’s gonna be non slip. It’s going to have a carry bag with a handle. It’s going to be water resistant, sweat resistant, maybe
 
Britton Upchurch  27:02
water resistant, sweat resistant. So when you’re doing yoga in the in a downpour.
 
Ben Donovan  27:08
Yeah, yeah, and all that.
 
Britton Upchurch  27:12
Okay, we’ll take water out. Yeah.
 
Ben Donovan  27:17
Yeah, I mean, those would be those would be the main things.
 
Britton Upchurch  27:20
Okay, well, we’ll just stick with that. So one thing about Perci while we’re on this little area, you can put a lot in here or you can put a little and Perci will take everything that you put or or flesh out now from a couple of details. What bullet length? Would you like to write your bullets? To what bite length? Yeah, two to 250 to 50. You want to do American or UK? English?
 
Ben Donovan  27:47
American? Just the language. So you can do like German French Italian?
 
Britton Upchurch  27:53
Yep. Any of the marketplace language marketspace languages Perci will do. It can handle. You know, if you put in English words and then say give me a German listing? It will it will do that just fine. If you put in English SEO keywords with a German language selection, it will give you those English keywords put into a German listing. So it’s better to you know, check and make sure that your keywords are matching the language that you want to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
Ben Donovan  28:24
That in itself is a you know, for people that want to expand into Europe. That’s a huge cost saver. Because, you know, you traditionally you’d have to get you there a translator or an agency that specializes in your Amazon in those marketplaces. And you know, this, this can obviously do it for you, which is incredible.
 
Britton Upchurch  28:42
Yeah, one thing I’ll I’ll advise folks, if you’re trying to translate listings, some people don’t know this, especially folks who are new to Amazon. If you have a listing in the US, you want to transfer it to say Mexico or to or to the UK, do your SEO research again for that market. A lot of folks try and use the same key words or they might even just chuck it into Google translate into Spanish or something. The way that people search in Mexico is not the same way that people search in the US it’s not the same way that people search in the UK. So make sure you always do new SEO research for every marketplace that you want to enter. Great tip. Okay, so we’ve got SEO keywords for me some SEO keywords your yoga mat expert.
 
Ben Donovan  29:29
Yep. Yoga Mat obviously. Extra Thick yoga mat. Yoga mat for women. The non slip yoga mat. Yep. Pilates Mat Desautels. At the gym mat as well. Gym man, exercise mat, yoga mat with handle or with bag? Said bag? Large yoga mat, do color depends on what your which color you’d be selling. But yeah, I think those are those would be the main ones.
 
Britton Upchurch  30:17
Okay, cool. So you can you can, you can put more phrases in here, you know, I’ve seen people put 30 40 keyword phrases in here sometimes a person will optimize them all. But this is a great start. There’s a couple of other knobs we could fiddle with maybe for time sake, we won’t worry about bullet topics, that’s it that allows you to control what each bullet does. But tone of voice, we probably would want a friendly tone of voice for this listing, I think, based on the yoga mat. So that’s good, we’ve got we’ve got some basic inputs here, I’m going to hit go. And you’ll see what comes out the other side is going to be so basically what’s happening here is Perci is looking at these product details that we’ve given it. So what’s the name? What are these? What are these details here, extra yoga mat, nonslip, all that. So it’s already returned our result we’ve got our title and bullets and everything else here on the right. But to finish that thought it takes those inputs that we gave it and forms a concept of the product. So it’s it’s sort of the AI’s way of, of getting its hands on this thing and looking around and making sure it understands, then it uses that idea to write every piece of your listing. So here’s the title. Here are five bullets it comes up with with ideas for each bullet. So what are the five things that we should talk about here? It will write an HTML description. So we’ve got HTML tags with headings and paragraphs, we’ve got bullet points on the bottom five bullet points. And then it goes through and just like a, you know, real writer, what it will optimize with all of the keyword phrases that we gave it. So they’re highlighted here in green, if anyone’s watching on YouTube, you can see that hopefully,
 
Ben Donovan  32:05
just for those that are listening on audio, just can I just read out a few bits of it, because it’s Oh, please do for us. Yeah, I’m reading it. I’m like this is really good. Actually, the title extra thick yoga mat for women. Obviously, the first key word that we put in, you know, is right there at the front of the title, which is obviously really important nonslip sweat resistant mat with carry bag and handle ideal for Pilates gymnastic stretching and exercise. So there’s a lot of keywords in there. But the key thing for me here is actually writes really well. I think a lot of people, maybe when they think about an AI tool, and you’re pumping loads of keywords into it, you know, it’s going to be just a bit spammy, maybe but that actually reads really well. And these, these bullet points as well just I click the scan them as you go through. But just to read a couple out again, they just read refuel, actually, balance and stability. So this is the first key word balance and stability, and then a dash, which, you know, I assume you kind of programmed that into it. Because that’s, you know, some good styling, let’s have a little bit of a title at the front of the bullet. And then the rest of the bullet says feel steady and secure in your poses with a non slip yoga mat for improved balanced and stability, enjoy being able to confidently hold poses for longer and confidently challenge yourself with more difficult sequences. Now, for me, that’s what’s really good about that is the fact that it’s not just looking at the features is talking about the benefits. And this is something we go on and on and on about with our community is you can’t just tell people what the product does, you’ve got to tell them what it does for them. What what is the end user going to get out of this product, how’s it going to make them feel, and it just starts right with that feel steady and secure and your poses, enjoy being able to confidently hold poses. And, yeah, really good. And then the next bullet point comfortably cushioned, you’ll love the increased comfort and cushioning of your Pilates Mat. Great for those long practices when you need support and sweat resistance, get the cushioning and comfort you need anytime anywhere you deserve it. And, and then even the fourth bullet point, so I’m kind of going over them all here. But the fourth bullet point, the little title there is get a grip on your practice. And then it’s talking about the grip that it has there. Which, again, these are, this is good copy, you know, like this is stuff that, you know, these little titles are. They’re short, they’re punchy, they get to the point of what you’re saying. I think, you know, my initial thought just scanning those first five bullet points is there’s probably it’s probably rehashing some of the same sort of points, but obviously we’ve done a very quick job of we haven’t put that many keywords in. We haven’t put that many features in so I think there Yeah, I think this where it’s gonna, I’m sure you would say to that where it’s going to come into its own is if you can put 20 features in 30 40 keywords in it’s gonna give it lots to work with. And and even like you mentioned, you can kind of assign those bullet topics. But that’s I mean for just Literally, what did we spend on that two minutes? Putting in a few key words, and it’s pumped out something that’s, yeah, honestly, I’m really impressed with the not just the fact that it’s the way it’s structured, but just the flow of it, you know, the fact that it’s covering features and benefits. That’s, yeah, I’m impressed.
 
Britton Upchurch  35:17
Well, thanks. That’s, that’s great to hear. I mean, one of the I won’t take all the credit for it. You know, AI is pretty amazing. But maybe one of the differences with Perci compared to other tools that you might see is that, you know, this is I’m a copywriter. So when I was building this, every step of the way, I was checking it and using it myself to make sure is this really going to write listings that people need and that are actually going to move products? Yeah, so yeah, it’s, it’s pretty, it’s fun to watch it now.
 
Ben Donovan  35:51
Yeah, for sure. And that was gonna be the next thing I was gonna say no, you know, I certainly don’t want to answer the question for you. But, you know, when I think about, because what Yeah, I suppose one of the things that a lot of people asking and I initially thought was, well, couldn’t you just do this with something like ChatGPT or something like that, which, you know, when we started talking was free, now they’re charging for it. So you know, it doesn’t make much difference now anyway. But you know, what I’ve seen with this here is just the specificity towards Amazon listings. And if you’re going to be, you know, hoping that you’re going to launch a product that’s going to generate 10,000 100,000 a month in revenue, then you want to be optimized as possible for Amazon, you don’t just want to use if you had a surgeon operating on you, you wouldn’t want them to use a dinner knife, right? You’d want them to use the sharpest, most specific scalpel to be incisive. And, you know, I think like this is a scalpel isn’t the right word. Yeah, I think so. Scalpel for exactly. was a mistake. Yeah.
 
Britton Upchurch  36:49
I think that’s really what it comes down to. You know, ChatGPT can can obviously do so many things. And in some ways it can do anything you ask whether it will do a good thing for that thing that you ask it. That’s that’s up for debate. But there are a lot of things that it does really well, like, you know, if you want to gift idea for 35 year old father of two, it will probably give you great gift ideas, where I think one of the confusing things about ChatGPT it and this is starting to be discussed, you know, online is it is a generalist AI engine. So, yeah, you can you can ask it. To write you an Amazon listing, you could ask it to write you five bullet points for an Amazon listing, and it would give you five bullet points. But the trick is that ChatGPT doesn’t actually know what Amazon is. So all ChatGPT will do is complete phrases based on the prompt that you give it. So there’s, there’s sort of a gap in understanding where ChatGPT can write you things, but it doesn’t actually understand what it’s writing for. It doesn’t know what Amazon’s restricted phrases are, or what’s preferred formatting is. So there’s a lot that that can be missed in the middle that could cost you sales. If you’re relying totally on ChatGPT to make the content for you, especially if you yourself, don’t know all the extra places you could fall short. So if you’re an expert, and you just need something to get 50% of the way there and you’ll do the rest, ChatGPT might be able to help you just get something on the page. But in the same amount of time, you could put it into person and you can get something that’s 95% of the way there.
 
Ben Donovan  38:42
Ya know, really good, your clients that are using it at the moment, what’s some of the feedback that you’re getting from them? How’s it helping them in their sort of day to day workflow?
 
Britton Upchurch  38:53
Well, the biggest thing is, and this is just so this makes me so happy. It’s just when I talk to content teams, for instance, who have to write listings all day, every day, when they see the first listing come out, the look of relief and joy on their face is pretty palpable. Because Because instantly, they can just see how much how much better their job is going to become. And either they can save time and go work on other things that they need to like a plus images or something like that, or it’s going to allow them to do way more listings at the same time. So suddenly, their account managers or, or their brand is going to be able to to list way easier. Probably the other thing I hear is is great feedback about extra things people want, you know, I’m always building more into Perci. So I get a lot of amazing feedback about, hey, can you make something that can adjust this or can you you know, could you also help me with this Amazon task. The next the next big one is SEO keywords. So I’m really excited about that doing some SEO keyword automation So you won’t have to filter through all the brand and irrelevant keywords yourself anymore. I like that.
 
Ben Donovan  40:06
Yeah, no, that’s exciting. Yeah, I think that, you know, like anything is going to need, this is going to do the heavy lifting for you, right? Because I think there’s a lot of people that are out there say, Well, you know, AI, you could just click a button and create a blog post, for instance, that’s going to rank on Google. And you know, that might happen short term, and in some cases, but then everyone can do that. And so then what’s the differentiating differentiating factor is going to be quality human input. And so it’s saying this, isn’t it, it’s gonna do the heavy lifting, for you, that does 50 75% of the work. But then you can really use your time to hone in and find those exact areas where you can really tweak it to your brand to your product. But I think it would, you know, for a lot of people, it would take them, a lot, they just wouldn’t do it. And they would just focus on the features and not translate that into benefits at all. Or it takes them so long to do it in a way that reads well, and includes the key words that, yeah, I think, you know, nobody should expect an AI tool just to do everything for them without having to edit, there’s always going to be a need to, you know, fine tune and take what it’s given you and kind of tweak it a little bit. But, yeah, so much of the heavy lifting that I can see this doing for, you know, Amazon sellers, you know, both new and, you know, and growing and agencies, like I imagined, gosh, this is going to change, change the game for some agencies,
 
Britton Upchurch  41:30
Agencies have been really happy about it, they’re really excited. To your point about you know, is this going to level the playing field, I think it’s gonna make the baseline of Amazon content lift. So if you go on Amazon, now, you know, half the products, you see, you wonder if the person just even was looking at what they were typing, you know, there’s a lot of really lazy listings out there. So it would be great for, you know, the general level of listings to go up. But I think for the for the top 10% of people who who already do focus a lot on their content and make sure it’s top quality. A tool like this, you know, what’s never going to be replaced is your own brand identity and, and the, you know, the way that you steer your product. So there are a lot of different yoga mats, online that you can buy. And each of them has a slightly different take, they might angle towards a different use case, or possibly a different brand voice or demographic. So no matter how advanced AI gets, and this will be true for any, for any AI tool that people create for Amazon, there’s always going to be a niche that you can, can go after easier with AI tools like this. So there’s always going to be you know, an art around what kind of features do you want to focus on? What kind of keywords? Are you going to find that someone else isn’t going to find that sort of stuff?
 
Ben Donovan  42:59
Absolutely. Very, very cool. And just sort of finish up, then if you could predict where AI and copywriting goes in the next 12 to 24 months, more of the same trajectory? What do you what are your thoughts?
 
Britton Upchurch  43:12
Or? I think in general, I mean, gosh, two months ago, only a couple of people knew about ChatGPT. And now everyone’s using it to answer all kinds of questions. The Google you know, fire alarm that is going off where people are now using ChatGPT instead of Google is interesting. So it’s possible that these kinds of things become almost more like personal assistants, just in a general sense. I think there’s going to be a lot of new tools that come out that help people probably in a similar way to Perci, that are made for specific use cases. So there might be say sales emails, writers, or I’m sure there’s already social post writing that’s being done. It’s gonna be interesting. It’s gonna be interesting to see around the edges of of, you know what ChatGPT will be generally useful for a lot of easy things, but then there’s a lot of harder things around the edge that it can’t really quite do Amazon listings are a good example. You know, it’s not really quite getting there. So it’s going to be interesting to see how people can use AI to keep expanding out.
 
Ben Donovan  44:24
Yeah absolutely. Very interesting times ahead, and I’m excited for it. And I’m excited for you and for Perci. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation not only about copywriting because that is such an essential skill for any entrepreneur, anybody that’s in you know, any sales environment at all is is absolutely massive. It’s one of the core skills that anybody should learn in business. So that’s that’s fun, but also the AI side really impressed with Perci and I’m excited to see see you build it. I think we’ve got a special offer for our for our listeners if they want to check out Perci.
 
Britton Upchurch  44:57
Yeah, if you want to check it out. Go on. Put in BBU50 You’ll get 50% off your first month.
 
Ben Donovan  45:05
Nice. And that is the URL is just proceed with an IP P you say you know,
 
Britton Upchurch  45:15
PERCI.AI PERCI.AI Go there, check it out, you get a couple of free listings when you sign up so you can have a play. And then yeah, when you when you sign up use BB you 50 get half off.
 
Ben Donovan  45:29
Nice. Thank you for doing that for our audience. I’m sure a bunch of take you up on it and try it out. And guys let me know in either YouTube comments or via email or anything. You know, just how you get on with it. I’d love to hear how you’re using it to speed up your workflow improve your listings, and yeah, create really great high converting Amazon listings. So exciting times Britain again, thank you for coming on. Really appreciate you taking time out and keep us posted with how it all goes.
 
Britton Upchurch  45:57
Oh yeah, I’ll let you know when there’s when there’s a new tool to show you. I’ll I’ll come on. Yeah, sounds good. Thanks, Ben. Thanks so much.
 
Ben Donovan  46:05
No worries. Awesome. Thanks for listening everyone. Check out that below that the deal for Perci below will be in the description and check out the website. Check out that everything that’s on offer. They’re excited for you to test that out. And we’ll see in the next episode same time next week. Take care bye