100. Using Audience Testing To Avoid Expensive Mistakes w/ PickFu’s Justin Chen

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The Brand Builder Show
100. Using Audience Testing To Avoid Expensive Mistakes w/ PickFu’s Justin Chen

Polling your target market for their input on your product and brand development can help save thousands in wasted costs and fast-track your eCommerce growth.

In this episode, PickFu founder Justin Chen walks us through this key strategy to help you gain crucial insight into your target market’s buying behaviors.

Try PickFu: https://www.brandbuilderuni.com/go/pickfu (save 50% with code BBU)

Connect with Justin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinchen/  

Get our weekly eCom Memo: https://brandbuilderuni.com/newsletter 

Talking Points

00:00 – Introduction to Guest: Justin Chen
02:19 – Justin’s Background
04:24 – Understanding Split Testing and Its Significance
07:56 – Key Stages in Business where Testing can be Useful
10:20 – Applicability of PickFu Across Various E-commerce Platforms
11:10 – Ideal Timing for Using PickFu in Business
16:16 – Testing Brand Assets: Brand Name, Design, Logo
18:11 – Maximizing PickFu for Improved Conversion Rates
20:05 – Real-world Examples of Successful Testing Outcomes
23:47 – PickFu Platform Dynamics: How it Works
27:59 – Advanced Strategies for Optimal Testing Outcomes
29:39 – DTC Brands Utilizing Social Media Ad Testing
30:30 – Exploring PickFu and How to Get Started

Ben Donovan  00:00
Hey folks, welcome back to another episode of The Brand Builder show. But it’s not just any old episode is actually the 100th episode of the show, and I’m super pumped about this huge milestone, we’ve got to I wanted to jump on do a little bit of a different intro before we dive into today’s episode, just to let you know that as we reached the 100th episode of the show, we are taking a little bit of a break. Now, the reason we’re doing that is because we’ve got some great plans and great ideas around the podcast making it even better sprucing up the format bringing you the very best content we possibly can. But in order to do that, we’re just having a little bit of a break to get everything sorted out on that and we will be back in the spring with new episodes. We thought that we would wait until the 100th episode because it is a pretty distinctive milestone. So here we are with the 100th episode and we will be taking that short break but we will keep you communicated about when we will be back inside our weekly newsletter, the Ecom memo which will continue if you’re not subscribed to that yet, please do subscribe to that in the description so you can hear all of the latest news are coming out of the world of E commerce and stay in touch with us there as well. Today’s episode, we’ve got Justin Chen from pick foods really great episode just finished recording it. And we talked all about preference testing to really test your products, your branding, your packaging, your marketing, everything you can think of prior to investing money into it so you can save that money on making mistakes on doing things with your products that your audience wouldn’t particularly like. So really good episode. Justin is a really sharp dude, I really enjoyed the conversation. And I know that you will get a lot out of it. So without further ado, let’s get into it. But do make sure you are subscribed to the podcast wherever you’re listening. So you do get notified when those episodes restart episode 101 coming at you in the spring. Alright, let’s jump into the episode. 

Ben Donovan  01:58
Hey, folks, welcome back to another episode of The Brand Builder show and in today’s episode, we are going to talk about one of the most important marketing strategies you can employ in your business. And that is split testing or AB testing. And it’s gonna be a really fun episode to talk through that today. We have Justin on the show, Justin, thanks so much for coming on.

Justin Chen  02:18
Yeah, thanks for having me, Ben.

Ben Donovan  02:20
I’m excited to talk through as I said, What is a massive, massive subject? But before we do that, why don’t you talk us through who you are, and why you are such an expert in this field? Sure,

Justin Chen  02:30
Yeah. So I’m one of the cofounders of PickFu, which is a consumer insights platform. And we kind of fell into this actually, because my co founder, John and I were building a completely different business years ago. And we needed something to get feedback on a redesign that we were working on. And so being engineers, we decided to build a solution. And that was PickFu. And over the years, we’ve developed a lot of a lot of experience and expertise as we continue to hone the product and really fine tune it for a market that’s been under underserved for gathering consumer research, which, which is, you know, a lot of small businesses even midsize, that don’t have the budget or the expertise to tap into market research consultants. 

Ben Donovan  02:31
Yeah, absolutely and whereabouts in the world you guys based?

Justin Chen  02:41
We’re both in California, I’m in Los Angeles, he’s up in the bay area, but our team is fully remote, all over the globe. And part of that is very intentional, because we found that our customer base is very global. So we, we particularly have respondents in the US. And so we started seeing a lot of customers outside the US testing, because they sell into the US marketplace. And so we wanted to have a team that reflects that diversity and make sure that we keep all the cultural and language, you know, differences in mind as we build the product. 

Ben Donovan  03:53
Yeah, very cool. Very cool. Good stuff. Okay. So lots to obviously talk about and pick up from your journey. I suppose the beginning question for anybody that’s listening to this thinking, especially as you said, this is like an underserved market, the traditional Amazon seller doesn’t think too much about split testing, because it’s not been an inherent part of the platform for so long. Obviously starting to change a bit more now, but still not a, you know, a forefront strategy that the typical Amazon seller would look at. So let’s start at the beginning. What is split testing and why is it so important? Yeah,

Justin Chen  04:28
I guess there’s a lot of different ways that people define split testing. You know, when you’re split testing live, like on Amazon or website, split testing, you’re typically presenting one or another option at a given time, and you’re trying to see which one performs better. So you’re tracking like, oh, Option A, you know, had a 10% lift over maybe the baseline, which might be option B. So when we do split testing, we actually do it off platform. So we kind of have these simple surveys where he asked question, do you present a couple options to our audience, and is proud Usually done. So it’s not impacting sales. And actually, it could be something that completely doesn’t exist yet, right? You could be testing hypothetical products or images or logos, or whatever it is. So in our case, we, we call it more of a preference test, because you’re asking people to, they look, they see the different options, and then they choose which one they like. And more importantly, they give you a written explanation why. And so that’s really insightful to understand how you can improve it for perhaps the next variation. Or if you’re testing against a competitor, understanding why you’re not getting the clicks, and maybe they are, so that you also have things that you could work on. So there’s a lot of different ways to do this kind of testing. Obviously, Amazon does have manager experiments. And we, we definitely recommend people do that. But we recommend using PickFu earlier in the process as you’re developing those creatives, so that not everything is seeing light of day. And you’re gonna have a lot more creative freedom to try out different things in a private avenue than always testing live, and there’s danger testing live, because you’re losing sales, kind of by definition, you’re putting an option, that’s not as strong as the other option. And it does take a lot of time for those live experiments to complete, depending on how much traffic you have and whatnot.

Ben Donovan  06:14
Yeah, that was gonna be my next question, which you kind of answered there, really. But I would like to understand a bit more and help the audience understand your best clients that are most successful. I imagine they’re using the pre preference surveys, as you call them, as well as split testing, never using them both hand in hand.

Justin Chen  06:35
Yeah, that’s right. So they’re typically doing all the iterative development of the creative using PickFu. And you could actually test things. Not, you don’t always have to test things against each other, you could also do open ended feedback on a single thing. So you might even just start with your, whatever your image is now, ask an open question of like, hey, what do you like or dislike about this, you could do that on your listing, as well point them to your poll and was on this thing, kind of get a crowdsource audit, and start getting ideas of what to improve. And so once you’ve read through all the feedback, the written feedback, you’ll start to surface like, okay, maybe, you know, maybe it’s a layout, maybe it’s the you know, the color or whatever it is, start working with your designer to adjust those and start iteratively testing, first against your own variations, and then validating it against your competition, to make sure that you’re not just optimizing in a vacuum, because sometimes people get really caught up on just creating the best version of their own image without testing against the competitors. But it is a competitive marketplace. Like, at the end of the day, if you don’t do better get your competition, it doesn’t really matter what you’ve optimized. So that’s the typical process that we see. But more impactful actually is our our most successful customers are using it even earlier in the product process.

Ben Donovan  07:56
Yeah, and I’d like to talk through the different stages of where this can be useful, because as you said, there are a lot of different stages in the business, where it seems like it can be really powerful. The question before we do that, though, is do you find that, obviously, with split testing, like on a live listing, where people are buying, people are obviously voting with their money? Do you find there’s a similar intent with a preference survey? What are your feelings? 

Justin Chen  08:21
Yeah, obviously, that’s that’s going to be the the best data is that that live data. But I think what this can give you is objections that may occur, you know, like, as they’re thinking through the buying process, trying to surface the things that might come up. And so obviously, the numbers aren’t going to reflect one to one 100% All the time. But what we can do is provide as much directional feedback as possible. So, you know, it’s kind of no different than if you were to go into a coffee shop, or, you know, talk to a group of moms, if that’s your target audience and trying to get their feedback ahead of time. You’re just trying to de risk as much as you can, before going live with whatever it is that you’re trying to publish. So yeah, the name of the game is de risking. And so that’s why we try to get people to do that final competitive test, because like, that is the closest thing we can approximate. And a lot of times we’ll even have people testing mock ups of, it’ll be like the image and the stars and the titles and the price and all that because those are all factors in the click. It’s not just the main image, it’s kind of a combination of those things. And we’ve actually seen people just adjust the main image and be able to overcome lower number of reviews or a higher price. And, you know, it’s really interesting to see how the interplay of each one of those components can actually impact people’s perception of the product.

Ben Donovan  09:47
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you highlight a significant aspect as in terms of the lack of investment before you do the test. You can decide, you know, before spending money you know, before you [inaudible]. That’s a great saying, you know, if you give people an option of a blue yoga mat and a red yoga mat, and nobody wants a blue yoga mat, that’s a good job, you didn’t order half of the inventory in that color because there’s no point split testing it when you once you bought it if nobody wanted it in the first place. So yes, good thoughts. Yeah. In terms of platform, are you finding a lot of Amazon sellers are doing this is useful for direct to consumer, Shopify, etc, as well?

Justin Chen  10:27
Yeah. Most of our Ecom is Amazon just because that’s where we’ve been kind of focused marketing wise, but we do have a lot of DTC brands. And a lot of DTC brands are selling on different marketplaces. So we start to see a lot of people testing different behaviors and different channels. And then there’s a lot of other aspects that are not Amazon specific that you could test, obviously, the branding and packaging, a lot of retail product packaging, testing, that’s even you know, that’s even harder to live test, right? So you’re really getting your packaging right, design-wise, when you’re selling into brick and mortar is really important. As we see a lot of Amazon sellers get larger, they’re starting to get these distribution channels into physical retail, and that’s when they’re doing even more packaging testing.

Ben Donovan  11:11
Yeah. Good. Very good. Okay, so it’d be good to talk about some different stages of the sort of journey, obviously, all begins with, I was gonna say it begins with product research, but it doesn’t it begin with, you know, brand, you know, brand, building the brand and who your target audience is. Do you start that early? Or is the first time you would suggest using PickFu for product research?

Justin Chen  11:33
Yeah, I would say, I mean, any of those things, because if you think about it as a digital focus group, and you had your target audience in front of you, like, what are the questions you would ask them? And you would probably start asking pretty broad questions like, if let’s just say you’re, you’re targeting moms with infants, which is something we can target. And you say, what are the issues that you have? What are the issues you have with diaper bags? Like, what are the issues you have with feeding your child, and just really getting them to articulate it? And maybe you’re still at that phase, where you’re trying to figure out, Okay, what’s the exact product I’m trying to sell, this can be super invaluable. Then as you hone in on it, okay, I want to do a diaper bag, but I’m going to, I’m going to switch up some of the features on it. So I’m going to present a concept or even just write out an articulation of like the value prop that I’m going to have. Now, what do you think about it? Like, would you buy this? Maybe, how much would you pay for it? How does this compare to some of the ones that you’ve seen, so really just think of it as that focus group, and you want to keep going back and validate all these small assumptions as you’re making decisions. Then once you’ve honed in on that, you can iterate on product design, you can iterate on branding, product names, all those kinds of things, obviously, packaging design. And of course, along the way, as you’re doing product design and packaging, you’ll still want to compare it against your your competition at some point, right? So, you know, okay, like, I think I’ve got a new variation of a product, and my moms are liking it. But I want to make sure that I’m gonna get, you know, I’m gonna chip away at the incumbents in that category. So definitely test the competition. And then yeah, kind of iterating on every step along the way, until until you get the final product and start working on the marketing creatives.

Ben Donovan  13:15
Definitely, there’s lots of stages, there isn’t there is a lot more involved. And I think, again, the traditional Amazon seller would get, you know, I think officers do product research in a bit of a vacuum and think, Well, you know, Helium 10 says is a good product to sell. So I’m going to sell it and kind of leave it there. And obviously, we teach people how to look at the reviews, study ways you can improve on a product. But there’s, again, that’s in a little bit of a vacuum still. And there’s something to be said for actually getting in front of your target audience and asking them what do they think? Yeah, you know, product research. But as you’ve alluded to there as well, product development is another phase where you’ve decided on a product, you’re going to sell your diaper bag, as you say, but there are maybe some things that you have, you’ve studied reviews, and you think I can improve on it here. But then taking it one step further and bringing it to an audience to give their thoughts back to you is is almost sort of extra validation. But do they then give you further ideas? How does that work? Can you kind of crowdsource ideas for improving the product?

Justin Chen  14:18
Yeah, for sure. I mean, a lot of times, when people are testing, doing an open ended test, they’ll say, “Hey, this is the concept I have, what do you like and dislike about it? Or what would you improve about it and people will offer their suggestions. This hypothetical test is so interesting that our most advanced customers what they’ll do, they’ll start with Helium 10, keyword research and all that kind of stuff, kind of seeing what the volume is. And, you know, they’ll have this huge spreadsheet of product opportunities. But the way they decide which one they actually go after is by running these hypothetical tests where they go through the process of “Okay, my approach to this product type is going to be this”, you know, 3d designed it, I’ve got even gone too far to create like a pretty good main image. And then I do a pick few tests against a competition. And they’ll just do that for every single opportunity. And only the ones that they make a significant dent against the competition are the ones that they’re going to go after. Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how big the keyword opportunities if you can’t dent someone, you know. If everyone’s got 10,000 reviews, and you have no shot at it, then you know, it’s going to be an uphill battle. So it’s really interesting to see all this these hypothetical tests. And it’s, it’s really disheartening, because a lot of times our customers, our new customers will come to us and they come to us wanting to just improve their main image because maybe the click through rates not doing well, they’ll run a test against their competition. And the feedback is, inevitably, “oh, I don’t like the design”, “I don’t like your packaging”, “your brand name is silly”, like all these feedback on all these things that they can’t change now, right? Because they’re just trying to move the product that they have in inventory. And all these things, they could have had feedback earlier in the process. And so that’s why we really try to get people to to test these micro decisions throughout the process so that by the time you hit the end, it’s not showing up and low sales or in bad reviews or whatnot.

Ben Donovan  16:16
You mentioned brand name there. Are those wider brand elements, things that people are testing as well. Brand look, brand design, logo name.

Justin Chen  16:24
Yeah, for sure. So testing resonance with the target audience, because I don’t know about you, but I, a lot of times, I’ll see stuff on Amazon, where I’ll buy, I’m looking to buy a product and the brand name just does not fit for the type of product it is. First of all, a lot of them. They don’t make any sense. But sometimes it’s like, oh, the name is like tech, but like it’s supposed to be some like kitchen and home goods. And it’s like, but that’s kind of weird. Like, it just seems like a mismatch. So so a lot of times you could do things where, you know, you ask a question, I’m starting a brand that’s for kitchen and home goods, which of these brand names like sounds like it would resonate with you. And then you could do the same as you’re designing the logo and just trying to get the look and feel to match. So that it because because it makes a big difference. Even if you’re a brand that’s not well known. People do see the brand. And they see the branding, and it feels like okay, well, this, this is a company that’s trying and that’s going into this space, it’s not a fly by night, or a company that just has a bunch of random products, because they’re going after every single opportunity. You want to go after someone who focus in a specific category, because it feels like they’re going to be around, and that they put a little bit more thought into the product. And so I think all those things are important for for getting that final sale. 

Ben Donovan  17:41
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it looks like they didn’t just mash the keyboard with their pants when they submitted their trading.

Justin Chen  17:48
Which is what a lot of them look like.

Ben Donovan  17:51
I mean, I’m pretty sure it’s just because they’re easy to trademark. And it’s yeah, you know, they’re just often selling commodity products, where it’s just the cheapest price wins. And but if you do want to build a brand, which obviously we believe is absolutely essential for success on Amazon, and beyond, you know, in the coming years, then these these things are important, aren’t they? Yep. So listing optimization, then obviously, we’ve mentioned main image a lot, what else can be done with PickFu to really get that conversion rate really humming?

Justin Chen  18:19
Yeah, so definitely copy. So you could be working on your bullet points or any of nav like A plus content, you could test copy variations. One popular test is asking people what what are what’s important when you’re buying this kind of product? So you know, if you’re buying a diaper bag, just asking an open a question like what are the important factors to you and having them just kind of articulate? Oh, I’m looking for this, I’m looking for this, okay, well, maybe those are things that you should focus on. Focus your bullets, focus your secondary images, make sure that you’re really honing in on those points. So copies important, you can test video. So as you’re creating the video, what we do, what we recommend is kind of testing the different components. So whether that’s background music, or voiceover actors, or even the script, or we’ve seen people testing storyboards, even and so there’s a lot of different components you could test as you’re building the video. So you’re not spending all that production time building a video and then testing it. And then, you know, again, people saying like, Oh, well, I don’t know, this is it doesn’t feel right. And I don’t like the voice like the the music’s weird. So test all those components before you get to the final product. And by the time you get to the final product, you’re going to have something that is going to resonate well with your audience.

Ben Donovan  19:37
Yeah, I’m going to put you on the spot a little bit here and ask you for kind of like, I suppose a case study or an example of a brand, not not a specific brand, obviously, don’t name them, but if you don’t want to, but there’s done this really well because I think that a lot of listeners will be thinking, gosh, like this sounds like quite a lot of hard work, you know, potentially expensive and lots of tests to run. And of course there is once would be, well, you know, the cost will pay off because you avoid making the mistakes, etc. But have you got any sort of real world examples of how this has played out for brands in the current market?

Justin Chen  20:11
Yeah, so we have a couple of case studies on on the website that you guys can check out. But let’s see, we can start with a simple one first. So a simple one would be yes bar, which is one of those kind of nutritional granola bars. And we were working then working with them to to explicitly test out how just changing the main image would make an impact. And so we worked on just changing the layout. We didn’t reshoot anything, we just tweak with the layout, we ran a PickFu test of three different variations of it. So I think the final, the one test was 70 bucks, 70 US dollars. We ran it for two weeks. And after those two weeks, we saw a 12% increase in in sessions, and so in click throughs. And so that led to just in those two weeks, an increase of $3,000 in sales. And so immediate ROI of a $70 test, and took almost no effort, it was just literally just changing the main image, you know, kind of adjusting the layout of things. And so that was an easy one. We had another one that was a headphone manufacturer. And so they were losing against a top competitor. And so the first thing they did was enlarge the image because their competition had a larger image than that. And immediately, they did well on that test. And then they started looking at the other components that other headphone companies were doing like laying it out in a way that had all the individual parts that were coming with it, you know, all the extra earpieces and all that kind of stuff, kind of like just playing around with all the different layouts, ran about a different a dozen different tests, kind of testing all these different things. In the end, not only did they increase the sales, but they were able to increase the price as well. But I think it was eight euros selling in, in the European market. And so all that from just changing the main image, so nothing to do with the product or the branding of the packaging, just kind of iterating on the imagery using PickFu. Trying out different layouts, kind of learning best practices, see if it would work with their product, and actually improved like revenue not only through more sales, but also higher price. So those are all really interesting case studies. rebranding wise, kind of our biggest one was the threat to brand angry orange, which is one of their keystone products. And back in the day, they came to us because after they had bought it, if you see the packaging that they bought the original packaging, it kind of looked a little home homegrown. And so they wanted to rebrand it to kind of give it an edgier look. And so they went through all these different design variations, centered in on on one that they tested with PickFu really validated that it was going to do a much better and immediately saw a I think it was a 30 to 40% increase in sales of 180 units per day, as soon as they launched that new packaging. And from there that’s that’s still the branding and packaging that they still use across all the different line variations that they’ve developed. So huge testament to to kind of testing these concepts out ahead of time. 

Ben Donovan  23:27
Yeah, very cool. I think their packaging angry orange, I think was white, wasn’t it before? I don’t know. Just anyway, yeah. Just seems crazy to me. Yeah. Because it’s bright orange now, isn’t it?

Justin Chen  23:39
Yeah, it’s a bright orange bottle that really pops in. And that’s the thing is it really pops in the search results, right, as you’re looking through in different, you know, pet deodorizers?

Ben Donovan  23:47
Yeah, definitely. Very cool. You mentioned a few things here that bring me on to the next thing that I want to try and understand, I suppose is is about the platform and the dynamics, are there. Some of the things that are being tested, there are a few questions on the platform, how it all works. The first one is, in terms of test size, what kind of size audience are you testing on a, you know, an average test?

Justin Chen  24:15
Yeah, I would say on average, Amazon sellers test between 50 and 100 people, but it really, it really depends on the type of thing that you’re doing. So we can go as low as 15. And if you’re iterating on some small design variations, like maybe I’m working on packaging, and just kind of playing with fonts or like small colors, I would probably just do 15 at a time. And we sell them at $1 per response. So it starts at 15 US dollars per pole for 15 responses. And so that allows you to get feedback very rapidly, relatively cheaply. And honestly, if it comes back 10 to five, it’s going to be statistically significant enough to feel confident in that decision, if you were to run a test and you’re trying to validate kind of like a more final decision, or you know, against a competition, yeah, I would recommend probably at least 100 responses. We can go up to 500. But that’s usually the larger brands that tend to do that. But yeah, so one of the one of the nice things about the platform is that you can always add more respondents. So, you know, if you start with 15, or 30, and it kind of comes back a little close, but you want a little bit more data, you can, you can add more responses to get it to 100, or 200. You could always stop it early as well. So if you started with 200, and it’s coming back 9-10, you can, you can stop it early, get get that credit provider to your account, and, you know, go on without lower number of responses.

Ben Donovan  25:48
Yeah, and that’s because if you have that flexibility to add more people in I didn’t realize that that’s a good feature. In terms of niching down, you mentioned, yeah, mums out there on diaper bags. How niche can you get, like, what kind of demographics we’re talking about?

Justin Chen  26:02
Yeah, I think we’ve got over 70 different ways to target people. So we definitely have the basics like age and gender income. But we also have behavioral things. So do you play sports? Do you drink coffee? Do you drink beer? Do you take nutritional supplements or use cosmetic products? So a lot of those things that a lot of sellers are targeting. And a lot of these attributes were from customer feedback. So if there’s something that that we’re not targeting yet, definitely let us know. It’s you know, and we’ll look into seeing if we can build that niche audience. Yeah, so primarily us right now, we do have a UK, Australia, Canada, Germany, and we just opened up Mexico, in Japan as well. So if you’re looking to move into any of those marketplaces, I definitely suggest doing some product validation and making sure that just because it’s hold while in the US, make sure that you know, the people want your particular version of the products in those marketplaces, even testing all your branding. Branding is an easy place to make a snafu when you’re when you’re going cross language, cross culture. And of course, like packaging and marketing, a lot of different cultures like to see information displayed in different formats. So don’t just take what works in one market and think it’s going to work in another one.

Ben Donovan  27:24
Yeah. Yeah, that is a really good use case to be fair. Because especially when you’ve got such culturally different marketplaces, you know, I know you’re not necessarily in all of them yet. Or maybe the plan is hopefully, but the, you know, places like Germany and Japan are so different to the US, the UK and British, so many cultural differences.

Justin Chen  27:45

Ben Donovan  27:46
Definitely, no, that’s good man. I really think is obviously such a big important thing for people to be doing with their accounts to be testing this kind of thing. Are there any things that you’re more advanced sellers are doing to be able to take this one step further? Or is there any kind of other sort of final bits of advice you give people when considering this testing side of things?

Justin Chen  28:11
I think the biggest thing is just to get in the habit of gathering some kind of feedback from your target audience. Like you said before, I think a lot of us are kind of caught in our own heads. And, you know, we’ve got our, our teams and circle of trusted advisors that that we ask for opinions from, but a lot of times, they’re not necessarily your target audience or that, you know, you can get into that groupthink a little too easily. So just getting into the habit of using data, whether it’s live testing with manager experiments, or finding like a Facebook group, or something where you’re kind of bouncing these ideas off strangers, I think it’s really important. And that’ll start getting you used to the habit and kind of like, culturally used to gathering data for things. And then of course, you know, like, start small and gather feedback on your listing or your your, the product that you have now and just ask people like, what do you like or dislike about this? A funny question that a lot of people start with is, what do you think this is a lot of agencies will do this with their clients, because though the clients will go to the agency with like, a really, maybe poor packaging or something like that. And agency will want to prove to them that like, hey, no one knows what this is. And so just putting that image out there and saying, Hey, what do you think this is, and it’s, it’s quite comical what sometimes people think certain products are so you know, really making sure that what you think you’re communicating is being communicated to your target audience. And that’s really the crux of it.

Ben Donovan  29:39
Maybe think of another question, actually, do you get many brands DTC brands, testing their ads, you know, like social media ads? Is that something you can? 

Justin Chen  29:46
Yeah, we do see a lot of social media content, testing even thumbnails for YouTube. You know, short video clips, things like that. Even just ad creatives, a lot of pre testing Yeah, because it can get really expensive when you’re optimizing that on those other platforms. And this is at least a capped amount that you’re paying. And and you get the written feedback. So it’s like, oh, people aren’t resonating with this tone that we’re going with like, let’s change that. 

Ben Donovan  30:13
Yes, absolutely. 

Justin Chen  30:14

Ben Donovan  30:15
Yeah, that was my thinking could save you a lot of money in ad spend to test things. And when the creators are so important these days with paid advertising, yeah, that could be a really good way to save costs, but get some really good insight as well. So yes, fascinating. Amazing. So where can people find out more about PickFu? And get involved if they want to test this out? 

Justin Chen  30:35
Yeah, so check us out, pickfu.com P-I-C-K-F-U.com If you use the code BBU, you will get 50% off your first poll. Also, when you sign up for free, we have an onboarding process that includes a small five-response poll so that you get to see what it’s like without putting your credit card in. So that’s a great way to get a feel for it. So definitely check that out. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m just in general, again, if you want to chat more.

Ben Donovan  31:05
Yeah, fantastic. Well, get all those links in the description in the show notes. This has been really insightful. And I think it’s answered a lot of questions for people that might think, well, I could just use manage my experiments for free. You know, but this is showing that there’s a significant, you know, potential savings to be made on making wrong decisions. There’s quicker growth because of making the right decisions earlier on in the process. So yeah, I think valuable tool. valuable discussion. So yeah, thanks for taking the time. Justin. We really appreciate it.

Justin Chen  31:37
Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Ben Donovan  31:40
No worries. You’re so welcome. There you go, folks. Let us know if you do decide to use PickFu. I’d love to hear some of your results. Because yeah, it’s super, super useful. When you’re marketing you need to be testing things, testing new things, making sure you’re serving your audience as best as possible. So thanks for joining us on this episode. Do give it a like subscribe, and we’ll see in the next episode. Very soon. Take care. There you have it folks, Episode 100. In the cam just a reminder, if you didn’t catch it at the beginning, we are taking a short break with the podcast now we will be back in the spring with a freshened up format with more great guests making even better conversations for you to learn and grow your ecommerce brand to 2024 and beyond. So make sure you are subscribed to the Ecom memo, our weekly newsletter and that you are subscribed on YouTube and the podcast platforms you listen on to make sure that you are notified when those new episodes do drop very, very soon. You can get in touch with us anytime you like through our website Brand Builder unit.com and we will look forward to seeing you in the next episode. Not quite real soon, but kinda soon. We’ll see you soon. Take care!

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