Expanding Into Amazon Europe [2022 Updates] w/ Nick Penev from HelloTax – #22

The Brand Builder Show
The Brand Builder Show
Expanding Into Amazon Europe [2022 Updates] w/ Nick Penev from HelloTax – #22
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Welcome back to another episode of the Brand Builder Show! This week we’re joined by Nick from HelloTax. 

Amazon recently re-launched the European Fulfiment Network program – one change in a long list of post-Brexit adjustments for Amazon sellers selling in Europe. 

We dove into all the updates and how sellers can best position themselves to take advantage of this often overlooked market!

=> Connect with Nick on LinkedIn.

=> Save 10% on HelloTax services with code BBU

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If you got this far, there’s a chance you enjoyed the episode… if so, please consider leaving a review – we really appreciate it!

Talking Points:

00:00 Ben welcomes Nick Penev to the show

00:56 Nick talks about his story in the eCommerce world

10:21 Where in Europe should one start (or expand) a business?

11:56 Reasons why you need to do VAT

15:26 Registering for VAT based on sales volume

16:28 Reopening of European Fulfillment Network

21:15 Non-EU seller expanding to Europe

24:12 Costs involved in expanding

26:48 Paying for fiscal representation insurance

33:23 Where to reach Nick Perev

Ben Donovan 
Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the brand builders show I’m here with my good friend, Nick. Nick, welcome to the show.
 
Nick Penev 
Welcome. Thanks for having me, Ben. I was just waiting on the red carpet. So I’m inside, I’m not going to swap away Kruseman. But let’s, let’s do some good show. No,
 
Ben Donovan 
yeah, I’ve got your blue bowl of blue m&ms And your bottled water at three degrees. All of your specifications for the, for the interview. It’s good to it’s good to have you here, man. I’m looking forward to chatting about the European fulfillment network and the changes that have taken place on Amazon recently to sort of open that up again, more to sellers. And, you know, all of the things around that as well. With VAT scaling Europe, there’s gonna be lots we’re going to chat through. So it’s gonna be really good. But before we dive into that, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, your history in E commerce and what you’re up to now?
 
Nick Penev 
Okay, okay. Sure. Sounds good. Ben. So let me tell you guys my long story in like, is, as quickly as possible, used to be an ecommerce seller for 10 years. I started in 2010. And that was one of the first companies selling a Siberian Europe. I’m not sure if you remember that. No, Dr. Muhammad das for in the States. He was promoting that on TV, and he gets in trouble. He went to Congress. So long story short, is that it was that early, that you know, I used to manufacture normal products in the UK in the USA, and I was selling them in Europe. I’m from Bulgaria, originally. So I started from Bulgaria, manufacturing in the US and UK and never manufactured in China. And the reason for that is very obvious. I was paying one cent per click. I was paying, paying for my private label supplements, two euros per bottle, and I was selling them for 50 Euro. So it can mean it can imagine 5g. I mean, he a five zero, because he No, no, no, it was something new, you know, you can lose 10-20 pounds per month use our product landing page in one language product page. And it was crazy. No, it was new. It was we I mean, just to give you an example what we’re doing, you’re spending quite 1000 euro for advertising per day at the beginning and we’re getting 1000 sales. So CPA was one one year and you were getting 50 Euro. So but it was early No, this is the this is the thing you know why? You need you shouldn’t be scared to expand to never know. And long story short is after the first product which was called OSI Verde, which means green OSI because it was like dry free. So bio stuff before the bio guys came along. And we did like 20 other private label products like muscle builders, mailing hints month, breast enlargement, skincare, all the vanity stuff, how to work pretty. And of course, but like everything in business, no, it gets saturated. Supplements are shady business, we used to spend like 1 million per month on Facebook and Google ads and they just suspend our accounts for you that they don’t care. Then we fix everything based on their compliance guidelines. Then in three weeks, they they suspend everything. So then we decide no What? No, this is that doesn’t work out. I mean, we need to diversify. And we switched from doing only PPC to performance in affiliates and partnership marketing. So we only pay for results. And this is what I have been doing for the last was part of the campaign to 2020 when I sold my brands. The reason is the following know my partner, he wants to build the Amazon of Eastern European, he said to me and you’re crazy and don’t want to do that. I mean, how are we gonna sell that? He said, I mean, I don’t care, man, you’re the sales guy. Okay, man, if you don’t care, do it without me. So I sold my brands I sold my shirts in the think is in here is when we move to the next part of the story. At the same time I was using a company called Hell tax is a VAT compliance provider for our brands, because we’re selling across Europe. We had multiple entities. And I knew the founders and when I sold my brands and we changed ownership of the company. They told me Okay, Nick, I see that you sold, you know, your brands, and we have an idea. I know you you’re doing a lot of partnerships in the affiliates for your brands. Can you build a partnership program for Cal Tech’s and grow the ecosystem? When is it of course, man that I mean, I sold my business No, I used to do b2c, but b2b shouldn’t be that different. So I started doing that for health tax. And the funny thing is a figure trade the way these guys in the industry have no idea how to do partnerships. I get I talk with aggregator service presidents your mechanic, I have funding I’ll give you a commission you’ll send business to me okay, why the hell should they do that? I mean, we we don’t know each other no, let’s first date, then we can get married and not going to marry right away. I I don’t I don’t trust you. So I figured though this we need to do to do different. And I started doing a lot of events with partners like, Well, Ben is doing education, this is the key in E commerce, you educate partners, sellers, and eventual, you can talk about the commercial, you know, helping first and giving first taking later on. So I started doing ask for help texts. And eventually, many of my partners told me Oh clinic came into the partnership for us. And I said, you know, what, you guys just give me an idea. You know, there are so many agencies, there is no such thing as a partnership agents. And long story short is now around the partnership agency for multiple companies in the E commerce space, like aggregators, SAS providers, agencies, educators, and the only companies which are around the partnership mark, myself is held tax, you know, taxes are the hardest for industry. So in this way, we’re talking today with Ben, because the book are number one in regards to expansion globally, and in Europe is taxes. I mean, in the US, it’s much easier, you know, it sales tax is one country. But after the US, you know, your next stop should be your and I’ll tell you more about what we do withheld tax, and why we’re here to get today with Ben.
 
Nick Penev 
So a little backstory about hell tax when, before I started sharing, so the founders are ex Amazon sellers. And this is not what happens, no, they met, they were just chatting in the Facebook group six years ago, one of them is called Crystal Valerie’s Christian their salary. So they get in there chatting about VAT compliance for their brand. So they figure that there is there isn’t a solution or software, which is tailored for Amazon in E commerce servers, and they decide to build one. So that’s what happened six years ago, the company is fully remote. And the main goal for health talks is to help sellers to expand across Europe. So only VAT components, nothing else VAT components for sellers when they export expand outside of their home country. So this is exactly what held tax is doing. You know, we help with the VAT compliance when you expand across Europe, this applies for EU companies in non US. And here it is No, a little swipe No, because some of your listeners been might be from the USA. And they they should not ask okay, why the hell should they go to Europe? I mean, you guys are fighting Korres you don’t like each other? Yes, you’re right about that. But besides that, I mean, it’s a huge market. And now, the population is like seven plus 700 plus millions and 400 plus of those are people who can buy stuff over it. So you’re going to expand to 27 new markets. If you’re a small brand, anywhere around the world, you know, you can turn yourself into a global one setting to another to a whole continent. If your competitors are not doing that. You can take them over because keep in mind, Europe is hard to start. But when you start it’s a long term revenue stream business because it’s not as competitive is the USA market. So and the last part is no, you expand to a new market, you make more sales, so you can order more stuff. So you can reduce your costs from your suppliers and manufacturers and water. The main book, by the way, Ben, if you want to can interrupt me from time to time if you have any questions or if you’re wanting Okay, okay, so Okay,
 
Nick Penev 
so and when expanding your water, the main blockers no first one, the main one is language barrier, because if your translation is not done correctly, it will look, I mean, you look like an amateur now, I used to sail across 20 markets in Europe, and translations are the key. If your copy is not country specific. See, if you’re not using the right the right wording and translations, you will never say anything or if you’re just gonna waste money on PPC. So this is important. Second part that you need to deal with is VAT which is why the sales tax in the USA, customs and logistics. So these are the main blockers that you need to overcome. And the good thing is that held tax offers the VAT and they have partners who offers everything else. Language barriers, like the length, translations, customs, logistics, product compliance, you can you name it, but in regards to taxes, I mean, this is what you will need to know when you expand in Europe. So I need to know what your VAT liability, which means how much you own, all from the past or the present in all European countries where you’re operating or you’re storing goods. You need to register for VAT in one or more markets and you need to file returns according to the different calendars regulations, you need to have a complete view of the good moments when you’re moving stock from one warehouse to another.
 
Nick Penev 
And of course, the last part is you need to have complete visibility across all your sales channels, Amazon, Shopify, Magento, whatever you’re using, you know. And then the next thing is, which the question that everybody asked me, okay, where should we start in Europe? Because if you, if you ask Amazon, I want to zone it’s gonna tear. Okay, guys go into Pan EU. Which which is, which is not a good advice for a few reasons we do the Pan EU , you need to do multiple VAT registrations. Don’t do that. I mean, always start with one or two. If you’re a UK company, you know, we will go deeper into the FN reopening later on. But it’s usually good to go with Germany because Germany is the biggest market across in Europe, second after Amazon, in the USA, and except documents in English. So I assume if all the speakers are English speakers, you don’t need to do translations in Germany. And a lot of people don’t know that. And besides that, I mean, in regards to the complexity, no, Poland, Germany, Italy are one of the easiest to register in regards to documentation and how hard it is. And the hardest one is pain. They won’t everything there, like original documentation is not their translation. So they should be your worst stop. Unless, of course, you’re coming from the bottom and your Spanish speak. And then you will also Okay, can I just not register for VAT wax and Chinese guys, guess what? Everybody needs to do that. I mean, you have no choice anymore, which is good. For all the sailors who are playing fairly, you know, Chinese are not very happy with the recent regulations, because there is no way to avoid paying VAT. So, but in general, this is why I need to do VAT. In order before July last year, there was a distance selling threshold limit, which you don’t need to worry about anymore since July last year, there is a single trace halt which is 10,000k. And when you reach that you can opt in for the OSS which we’ll talk a little further in details later on. But if if let’s say if you’re a UK saver, or non US seller, selling on Amazon, you don’t need to worry about that because Amazon is gonna cover that and you don’t need to worry about OSS, or OSS would apply if you sell on Amazon. And if you sell on Shopify as well, because Amazon is deemed subpar, meaning that they will collectivity and Shopify is not. But we’re not going to do it very complicated. Just keep in mind, you don’t need to worry four separate thresholds in the markets that you deliver. So there’s one which is thinking. And that’s it right now.
 
Nick Penev 
Second reason why you need to have VAT, if you store good goods in any given market, you need to register for wheat, if you store in the UK, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, France, Spain, Italy, then you need to have a VAT restriction in each one of them. So this is something that still applies and is not changed. So
 
Ben Donovan 
on the distance selling one, sorry, just come back now. So the distance selling thresholds no matter what country you sell into, the limit is 10,000. So before is 100,000 euros,
 
Nick Penev 
exactly. It used to be different and withheld tax with our software, we use to track that and we used to notify you just hit your traceroute in Germany, you need to do the VT research and right now, it don’t need to worry about that. Because no, you only hit the 10,000k You know you can opt in for the one stop shop. But this is only if you are like non EU. If you’re EU based. And you’re using let’s say Amazon or if you’re new base and you’re using Shopify, because if you just use Amazon, if you’re a non EU company, Amazon is gonna take care of that you don’t need to use the one stop shop.
 
Ben Donovan 
The What about VAT,
 
Nick Penev 
VAT VAT always you need that you know you need video. So you need one VAT registration. So let’s let’s let’s do like a quick case study. You’re awake a UK seller. You have like VAT in the UK. So you can use you can just deliver from UK across the whole European Union or the Amazon markets and you don’t need to do more than one VAT in the UK. Of course, of course your sales are under 100 confused here. But this is this how it works is your EU based company, you have the following option. You know, you can let’s say you’re based in Spain, and you would like to deliver from Spain to the rest of the EU. You need one VAT in Spain and you can make delivery to the whole European Union. And you don’t need to worry about the tariffs called limits in the different markets.
 
Ben Donovan 
So I take this take the UK example just because a lot of listeners will be able to talk you
 
Nick Penev 
okay? You can UK example, you don’t need to worry about that because UK is non EU. So if you’re selling for Amazon, you don’t need the one stop shop, you don’t need to worry about the threshold limit. They can you can store in the UK, you can deliver to all European Union markets.
 
Ben Donovan 
But there will be a point where you need to register for VAT based on your sales volume. No,
 
Nick Penev 
no, no. There is no there is no trace hold limit anywhere. So
 
Ben Donovan 
200,000 euros in Germany and not need to register.
 
Nick Penev 
No, you don’t anymore. This is, of course, if you use Amazon. If you’re use Shopify, then you will need to opt in for the one stop shop.
 
Ben Donovan 
But not all this do it.
 
Nick Penev 
Now you always need VAT, you always have VAT VAT registration is because you need us, for example, for the imports for the b2b transactions. So
 
Ben Donovan 
you don’t necessarily in the in Germany.
 
Nick Penev 
No, no, no, you don’t. You will. You only need to set up the VAT in Germany if you decide to have storage there. For example, Amazon FBA
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, gotcha.
 
Nick Penev 
So just just one VAT in the UK would be enough.
 
Ben Donovan 
Gotcha.
 
Nick Penev 
And it’s a big change. Yeah, I mean, it’s much easier and right now we’re gonna chat about the European fulfillment network, you know, the reopening of that is as a matter of fact, this has been in like beta in pilot for some sailors for like over a year. But now it’s they’re officially remounting now, because I have like hundreds of partners from the UK, and many of them are complained to me know what we hit a lot of sailors out, and we’re selling meaning millions. And now they don’t say anything in Europe, because they’re scared that no, they can be stuck at customs and all this stuff. So obviously, Amazon was losing a lot of business. So once the Brexit kicked in all the start looking for a solution. And now it’s official, you know, from March, you can do the fulfillment between the UK in the EU for the European fulfillment network. So obviously, you know, this is what you need to know in regards to the AFN. And how he can do that you need to have access to both the UK in the usaver accounts meaning that you need to list your products if needed here for problems both in the UK, in the EU. And inventory should be eligible across the UK, your offer should be stored in the worker fulfillment center. So just to make it really simple you store in the UK, you list your offers across Amazon, UK, now the European Amazon markets and you can deliver and ship across the whole I mean all these countries from there. And just to summarize know, the one important thing about that is that in order to apply for that your sales must not exceed 150 euro or 135 pounds. And this applies only for b2c transactions.
 
Ben Donovan 
And that per item or per transaction
 
Nick Penev 
per item.
 
Ben Donovan 
Okay.
 
Nick Penev 
So here is the case know how it works. Now, let’s say your E case here, you have not been selling in the EU for like a year old. So right now after the reopening, you can take advantage of that you can store in the UK, you can list your products across the Amazon markets in Europe, you can sell there, the order is fulfilled from your, from the UK to the EU clients. Amazon is going to collect the vat for that and pay that to the tax authorities. And the only thing that you’re required to do is just report that that’s it. You don’t need to but of course you still need to have the VAT. So one VAT in the UK is what you need. Yeah. So
 
Ben Donovan 
so then the only reason a seller would go pan euro is just to save on the fulfillment fees, because thresholds on the
 
Nick Penev 
Exactly, exactly. And this is this is the case no, this is what is the best case scenario, you know, in not only right now after the event, but in general, you should always start with one market in Europe. So let’s say right now for the fan. This is a huge relief for UK sellers. Because now you let’s say you’re a new seller, you’re not a seller that stopped selling after Brexit. So if you’re a new seller, you start from the UK. But instead of wasting time and money for like V research and across all the markets, which Amazon covers in Europe, you just use the UK, you deliver your sales, you shipped to clients. And at one point, let’s say in three months, you say you know what? I’m doing great sales in Germany or in France, then it would make sense to set up the Amazon FBA in Germany in France and do like the delivery from the Walco fulfillment centers database but Only there in a way, consider that Amazon is enabling you guys for the AFN. To test, ABC test the European Amazon markets, if your sales are great, then it will make sense to move there. If not, I mean, you should not because you will be going into a bureaucratic restriction all this stuff. And the idea is not for us to take your money, or, or to is for us to succeed. And sometimes Amazon is pushing sales to the Panya, which is not a good thing, because sometimes people give up because doing quantum gravity, it takes 2,3,4 months sometimes, but imagine doing quite five or seven, or it will be some people might give up and this way, start small test. And then you can scale across the European Union.
 
Nick Penev 
So the one thing that just mentioned that if your sales are above 150 Euro, and this is for the b2c sales, and for all the b2b transactions, you know, the customer will be the importer of record, and they need to pay the import VAT and the duties when you fulfill from the UK to the EU. And the same case scenario points from the EU to the UK. So this is how it works. And I think to summarize, I mean, this model that obviously is enabled right now by Amazon applies also for any non EU seller, if you expand to Europe. So let’s say if you’re based in the USA, Asia, whatever, if you would like to expand to Europe, you should use the same model. And that’s what we recommend always, when you expand to Europe, you need to fit registration UK or Germany. So you can choose one or just to get started. Now if you’re English speaker, of course, UK would be what makes sense. But keep in mind that Germany is the biggest one after amazon.com. So choose one, we have the customs partner so they can cover the importer of record, you know, all the other stuff. And eventually, if you’re using Shopify or any, like direct consumer software or a shopping cart, then you will need to have the one stop shop in this setup would allow you to store in one market in Europe to get started in delivery to all the potential b2c clients across Europe.
 
Ben Donovan 
And the only time you would need to then register in other areas for VAT is if you store goods
 
Nick Penev 
exactly as simple as that, you know, if you store your register, if you don’t, you can use one mark. So as simple as that, and of course, we do the VAT monthly filing suppose the OSS quarterly if it’s required. So that’s that’s what we do. In health tax, we have the digital, like a SaaS solution on the front end, which does the following keynote the result of listener so I’m not going to show the Doom but it’s really simple like that, you do the VAT registration. After we get the VT, which takes two up to four months, we can you connect your Amazon account, you know, we get the data from Amazon, we file the report on your behalf. And your only next responsibility is to go down all the return paid up to the tax authorities. So this is all done. This is what we do. We have the software which calculates everything. We do the restriction for the software, we do the data processing and verification. Because we give the software pause Walco tax advisor for niche markets and of course, we monitor the components and all the sales data. So it’s simple is that then the good thing is that the software is free. You only pay for the software if you do the Vita registration with us. So I’ll share that with Ben. So you can go check it out. I mean, it’s it’s as simple as that.
 
Ben Donovan 
Sounds good man. So for anybody that’s say they’re already VAT registered in a country, whether that’s UK, Germany, wherever, what are the key? Are you able to give any kind of rough idea of costs to expand like, compliance wise, it sounds like there’s not really a great deal to do OSS, for instance, if they did need to do OSS, what are the kind of costs involved in that?
 
Nick Penev 
Okay, okay, sure. So, this one, I think regarding the expansion, so cost roughly, is this on our tightest like 1000 euro per year per market. So if you need one two registration, in filing for at UK, or Germany, it will be like roughly 1000 euro per year. So this is what we cover. In regards to health X our customers partner, they will set you up with the importer of record to the IRA number. So this is like 1000 Euro one time fee. So let’s we’re talking about 400. And on top of all of that, of course, you need to do the translations in the other stuff. So in regards to the VT components, you’re walking into like 1200 Euro, for I mean 1200 is like a starter fee, which would cover it for one year. And then of course you have other expenses like translations But in regards to taxes, that’s it, that this applies for Amazon and applies for UK, in Germany. And what one thing that a non US sellers need to keep in mind is that in some markets, the VAT, I mean, there is so called fiscal representation insurance, which means that, I mean, it’s like insurance that if you don’t pay the VAT, the insurer is gonna cover that. And this was applied because of Chinese sellers, because sometimes the set up companies, they set up the report, and then they don’t pay the VAT, they just burn the company. So because of that, you either Amazon is collecting the VAT. Or the second option is, you know, you need to cover the insurance in the insurer insurance is an additional like 50 Euro, like 600 euro per year for Amazon, or, or  1800 euro per year for Shopify, because Shopify is not deemed subpar. And this is for this specific reason is why we always recommend UK in Germany. Besides that, they’re obviously Germany is the biggest one is the English speaking market. They also don’t require fiscal representation. So you’re saving from let’s say, 600, Euro, up to 1800 euro per year extra for this fiscal representation. Which is, which is a lot. But you know, they’re the biggest market. So they enable that No, one of our guys is joking, the German is so rich, they don’t care if somebody don’t pay the VAT. So they don’t require it simple is that.
 
Ben Donovan 
So if someone was to register in all countries, they would have to pay for that fiscal representation insurance in all in all marketplaces.
 
Nick Penev 
Not actually me. Let me give you the stats for the UK because for the for non EU in general, the only countries which don’t require fiscal representation are UK, Germany and Czech Republic. And, and for the UK companies, it is required only in Poland and France at this stage. So UK companies always given advanced right now compared to the other non US. But this know why why taxes? Or why that I mean, people don’t just go and buy VT on the website. Now, you always need to do a consultation, because there is different cases, for example, you might be selling a certain product, you might need certain product compliance, but in general, if you don’t need anything special, I mean, don’t go for the Pan EU, unless, of course, you’re I mean, even even for established business doesn’t make sense to go into the Pioneer right away. You know, I have we have a special solution, which are used by aggregators and large agencies, some of these guys have countered companies, and we advise them don’t start with all set up one, and then it would be easier for the other one. Because I mean, it doesn’t make sense. I mean,
 
Ben Donovan 
you slightly different just coming back a little bit to the VAT, you mentioned about Amazon collecting VAT. Obviously, sellers say in the UK, when they start, there’s an 85,000 pound threshold, where until you hit that you’re not required to register for VAT, therefore, you don’t need to remit any VAT. Obviously, previously, when you would sell into Europe and not register, you wouldn’t have to pay any VAT on those sales. What’s the situation? Are you now saying that you will have to an Amazon will, will remit that. Okay, okay,
 
Nick Penev 
just just one thing here in the fingers Health Act doesn’t provide VAT restriction for home countries, let’s say if you’re a UK seller, we don’t cover the UK. for you in the UK. If you’re a German seller, we don’t cover the VAT in Germany. So we’re, let’s say export an expansion if your UK seller expands to other countries, and vice versa. So this is not something that we cover. Usually this is covered by your local accountant. And this applies for like VAT sales in your home country, because we have that in Bulgaria in other markets, you don’t need to. I don’t need to register for VAT unless you reach the thresholds for your country.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yes, sorry. I mean, if I, for me as an example, for me as a UK seller, selling into Germany through, you know, but storing my products in the UK, so I’m not VAT registered in Germany. Am I still going to have to pay VAT on those sales?
 
Nick Penev 
Yes, yeah. And I need to check on that. Because I’m not completely sure. Because, like you said, you’re storing in the UK? No, this is a case that probably is the first time somebody’s asking me, by the way. So
 
Ben Donovan 
just because that would have a big impact on potential profitability, because what sellers are going to have to factor in is these EFM fees are significantly higher than local fulfillment fees. So you need to factor that in with pricing, etc. But you didn’t use to have to pay the VAT because obviously you’re not registered for VAT. But as you say, um was in are collecting VAT and more instances now. So, you know, they may just collect it on your behalf, which may be a challenge though.
 
Nick Penev 
Exactly. You know, if you make the calculation, it might be cheaper to do the funny you, I mean, not the pioneer, but to move to Germany. So I need to check on that if they are required, but they’re collecting the VAT and all that. That’s for sure. Yeah. And estimated the
 
Ben Donovan 
good stuff. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think that really helps. So in terms of understanding the process, and it’s good to hear what you’re saying about not diving into Pan EU too soon? It’s good. Good to hear that helpful for sellers? I think I
 
Nick Penev 
mean, I mean, I think, you know, we can do the same and out, you know, let’s say we need to PPC campaigns, you know, you do always testing, you know, you don’t do like a full scale expansion. So you should you should consider the same with the VT, you know, you shouldn’t do I call the VAT is that Amazon is? Because no, they make money from fees. This is why the hair wag the gateway of the free VAT, because they don’t care about the omega from the fee. So yeah, I mean, Amazon are good, but of course, don’t trust them for everything. You know. They have quarterly reports, you know, they need to do like,
 
Ben Donovan 
I always tell I tell my students, you know, like, it’s your business goals. And Amazon’s business goals aren’t always 100% aligned. A lot of the time they are, you know, make more sales. But if they’re telling you to spend more money on ads to spend more money on expansion, you know, it’s not always because they think that it will actually provide you more profit is because they want to collect more fees. So, yeah,
 
Nick Penev 
I mean, they’re helping, but of course, they would like to help the revenue go up. Normally,
 
Ben Donovan 
yep, sure, for sure. That’s good.
 
Nick Penev 
This is why it’s good to note here if people like being an indie show different tangles, and you can just just walk in just make your own decision. I mean, not
 
Ben Donovan 
so sure. Sure. That’s good, man. Is there anything else you think that would be helpful on this topic for the audience?
 
Nick Penev 
Yeah, I think you know, the next thing, the next thing that you can guys do is whenever you have questions, you can just do consultation. And that’s it. I mean, it’s taxes are way that I mean, you don’t buy it, don’t go and buy them on the website, always consult with somebody, and then you make the next step after that. So
 
Ben Donovan 
yeah, yeah, I think you’re right. It’s not like you guys, as a tax company could just have a Shopify store, and just sell, you know, cookie cutter packages that it needs to be touchy.
 
Nick Penev 
Let me tell you a joke about like, No, we did a campaign like in the in the fall last year. And we did like expansion for resellers, which was very good. But now our guys want to do like some automation, onboarding, you know, without talking to clients, and sometimes no people from the years used to sign up for VAT, and they call the next day. Hey, guys, here’s my VAT order. Yesterday. So, so this is this is why you need to give the explanation because you need to have the right expectations. No, you need to file that I mean,  document, and then it takes two to three, four months sometimes. Right? Expectations are good. And this way, it’s good that we have this chats about this stuff. So for sure, I think we’ve covered we’ve covered the most important parts.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And if people do want to reach out to you, where’s the best place to do that? Obviously, we’ll leave a link, etc. In the description. But where’s the best place?
 
Nick Penev 
I mean, LinkedIn, I’m connecting the word there. So photo sharing, oh, my link, you know, you guys have a special coupon code for Ben. So because now I would like to save you some money. So that’s for sure.
 
Ben Donovan 
Definitely. Yeah, we’ll have that. Have that discount loaded up for you guys in the description in the show notes below. So hopefully you can get a good deal there and get some help in your expansion to Europe. I know it’s something we’re just UK in US at the moment with our new brand and you know, looking at European the next step, so we’ll be definitely looking into this a lot more. It’s been super helpful for me, Nick, thanks so much for coming on the show man. Really appreciate your time.
 
Nick Penev 
Well, welcome Ben. Just push the ginger tea so you get better.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. Awesome, guys. Thanks for joining us on today’s episode, do check out hello tax in the link below. If we can help with anything else do reach out and we’ll look forward to seeing you in the next episode.