Advanced Amazon PPC Strategies for 2022 w/ Vitalii Khyzhniak from Profit Whales – #28

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The Brand Builder Show
Advanced Amazon PPC Strategies for 2022 w/ Vitalii Khyzhniak from Profit Whales – #28
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Welcome back to another episode of the Brand Builder Show!

This week we’re joined by Vitalii from Profit Whales, a full service PPC & marketing agency working with 7, 8 and 9-figure brands on Amazon.

We talked about the approach sellers should be taking with their Amazon PPC campaigns in 2022 and beyond, as well as covering advanced topics such as scaling campaigns, search term isolation, and placement bid adjustments.

We also discussed wider brand building strategies Vitalii and his team are using when driving off-Amazon traffic. All in all, an episode not to miss!

> Learn more about Profit Whales.

Helpful resources:

If you got this far, there’s a chance you enjoyed the episode… if so, please consider leaving a review – we really appreciate it!

Talking points:

00:00 Ben introduces Vitalii

00:44 Vitalii talks about how he started in the Amazon space

05:11 Vitalii and Profit Whales

10:52 Importance of keyword ranking on Amazon

13:31 Dealing with broad, generic keywords

17:29 Doing keyword isolation

25:04 On rising ad costs

31:58 Giving discount codes on Amazon

39:27 Vitalii’s recommendations when starting a campaign on Amazon

42:25 Why choose Profit Whales 

Ben Donovan 
Hey, folks, welcome to another episode of The Brand Builder show is my pleasure to have with us today. Vitalii from Profit Whales, Batali. Welcome to the show.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Nice to meet you, Ben. Thank you for your invite.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, it’s great to have you here. I’m excited to dive into all things. Amazon PPC is one of our favorite topics. And you’re right and right on the cutting edge of the topic. So yeah, really looking forward to that. We’d love to hear a bit about yourself. Before we get into it. Give us a bit of background, your origin story. Vitalii. How did you get started in the entrepreneurial world? Amazon space? Give us a bit of a background?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, it’s a good question. Because I have started from the digital marketing, you know, and I have started from the Google ads, Google Analytics. And that was my main passion on the beginning to understand that you could help businesses and see the impact, like the real impact the real sales, the real ROS or ROI, you know, you could you could feel how your ads or your connection was the business could help these businesses to grow. For me, that was like one of the most amazing things because I have started from the learning marketing from the like universities from traveling around some different European courses when I was a student, but then I but I have tried to work. And you see the real impact that marketing, sometimes like a lot of people could say that marketing couldn’t be measurable, right? Like in the first beginning, both like the old version of it, and right now you could see the real impact from the marketing that you do and all this marketing around like the digital happens. And there was something amazing for me, I have started my Jordan journey as like the like the business development. Yeah, it’s like the person who could connect to the PPC specialist analytics like go people around to around the project of the clients in So you are on the client side, it’s not like fair maybe for the agencies where you’re working, but still it’s like a good for the clients. And so I guess I’m right now in the same situation because my like journey starts from the digital marketing then I go to the CMO of one of the big companies for working exactly when you have a company with the services, like what was the company was their own products and how you could present it and the this server these products was like, like, also goods in the case of the understanding they are dead was a augmented reality, like AR VR systems, you know, that help like to build a new way for promoting your brands for your products? That that was difficult to, to work with, because it’s more about like the b2b, you know, so we are working exactly as the companies as you are, and providing them with this understanding. And then yeah, I get a chance to I had a great conversation with one of the founders was Alex on the beginning that they are looking for not specialists, they are you looking for the people like for the human and for me, that was like, a big surprise. Like, why are speaking about with like the you want to grow with the business? It was beautiful. What is a crazy idea, you know? And yeah, right now I’m here, right now I’m in profitability. It’s like around more than two years for now. I’m the I’m on the position of the CEO now. So as I have mentioned, I guess I am right now also on the side of the clients. Not on the agency side. Yeah.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. Great, man. That’s awesome. Great story. Did you find the transition from Google PPC to Amazon PPC, a smooth one is a lot of things that helped on that journey.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
I guess right now, I just could tell that it’s finally we got a chance to connect all these dots, because that was like one of my main passions. So for the Amazon team, when we got a like conversation with them, because we are the Amazon as partners, we had a like weekly connections with them. And we, we asked them, and we provided them with recommendations. And please, guys, could you connect these dots from the general digital marketing and your marketplace? And absolutely, like when you’re working with PPC platform says Google, you could understand each and every PPC platform or market marketplace that have their own PPC systems, from scratch, you know, like all next updates that they will launch? Do you understand that? Yes, on Amazon, we have some the keywords, they’re working differently in the case of like the, for example, the match type? Yeah, it’s not like this Amazon, Google, but the general understanding how the system should work. For example, our structure that connects you know, keywords and sites around like, once a min decor, it’s one of the way that we correct from Google yelling so that it was connections really smooth. And I enjoy how you could on the Amazon check exactly in the same time how your ads are profitable or not on Google, you couldn’t do that on like in one in one click.
 
Ben Donovan 
Awesome. So just give us a bit of background then as well on profit Wales, because you guys, it’s not necessarily a traditional BBC software, it’s more of like a managed service, right?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, yeah, you’re absolutely right. Because our main idea it’s right now. Sounds like a full service marketing agency. Yeah, for the Amazon brands and beyond. So our main focus is to grow you as a brand on and out of Amazon with the help of the advertising. Yeah. So we want to be your marketing partner. Yes. So we absolutely understand how to correctly how to grow you on Amazon, with the help of like, all tools that you need around the Amazon, how to work with the price, how to work with your listings, what about your photos, and the core that we are building is like the relevancy, it’s the number of keywords that you are ranked? Like all the things that are connected with the Amazon PPC? Yeah. So around that, we could build next strategy as the roadmap for your growth. So, there is like different because around our agency, we do have some software’s that is like connected to us and we are working with, and some of the software’s is like our own software’s that we have created. And that is important. Yeah. So we understand that only in the way of the synergy of the software’s and agencies, you will have a chance to grow your brands correctly. Because you need to have a lot of AB tests, you need to have a lot of things up on control. Your product launch should be different. Your growing and like boosting products should be different than your competitors, and you need to control a lot of things. Yeah, and we help businesses to do that.
 
Ben Donovan 
Awesome, man. Sounds good. And I’d obviously love to talk about what you guys are doing. Obviously being so involved in the process with your clients, it would be I think, super insightful for our audience to understand Some of the things that you’re seeing and doing to succeed with Amazon, because, you know, Amazon PPC has changed a lot, you know, the core fundamentals are the same, of course, you know, you bid for keywords, you set your match type your, you know, targeting, but the strategies and the mindset with it, you know, has changed, obviously, over recent years. So, you know, first question really are what changes have you seen over the last 12 months in the Amazon PPC space that listeners really need to be aware of, and utilizing in their business?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah. This is a good question. Because you’re in the last 12 months, we get a lot of updates around the Amazon PPC, and some additional tools and the Amazon tribution as the Amazon DSP. But I guess one of the most important changes happened around the relevancy around the keywords relevance here on the Amazon, how people work in in the case of the keywords and dictation that people typing in and what keywords could work for your listings for is not and these relevancy to live relevancy updates, connect as Amazon SEO and Amazon PPC? Yes. Like it’s the these the same improvements. Right now working here. And the main idea is that you need to be relevant, and you need to show Amazon that your products relevant on how much keywords Yeah, on, you need to work on that you need to increase your semantic core, you need to check your back end keywords, your listing keywords, you need to keep an eye on that it’s not like one time per year or one time in six months. No, it’s like ongoing process that you should work in on. Yeah, you need to control that. And that is huge, because it’s like one of the main and first steps that we do for our clients is checking the wasted spent, you check in the number of duplicates, is checking the how your keywords working around your campaigns right now that you are launching. And for the most of the classes, it’s like for the 98 maybe percent of audits that we do, it’s it’s the main problems that we see a lot of Amazon sellers, they have a lot of duplicates, and they couldn’t tell exactly Amazon, on what keywords they should be ranked, because there is like different sometimes they do not add only the keywords to their semantic course or to their listings, you know, a lot of people they just they spent a lot of money on on irrelevant keywords. And Amazon will never rank them here. And they just spent this purchase, but they could relocate it for some other keywords that they need to be around. Right. So it’s a it’s a huge impact that a lot of Amazon sellers could check they could be focusing on right now. And that could be easy if you will do that as an ongoing process. And that could absolutely influence your organic and PPC sales.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, Relevancy is such a massive thing, we had a real clear example of that just now we launched a product ourselves about 10 days ago. And it’s we sell toys, and set it all up in the toy category. But somehow I was looking on, you know, one of the tools and it showed the categories like kitchen and bath products. And it was in completely the wrong category. And I was doing some digging, because we’d been we’d launched and over seven days, you know, this product had done 70 or 80 sales, it was going really well. But we weren’t getting any keyword ranking. And I was like what is going on. And so I tried to do a flat file to update it didn’t update still didn’t change. So then I just contacted Amazon and got them to change it. Eventually they changed it. And literally overnight keyword ranking first page for one of our target keywords, you know, we were nowhere to be seen the category was then relevant. And then all of a sudden there was key ranking. So it’s there’s a lot that goes into that relevancy, but it’s it’s such an important thing, right?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And there is like one of the examples but people facing was that you are like each each month around like a lot of products, you know, and they sometimes they don’t know what is the problem. And what they do they go to the advertising changing the birds increasing the budget started spending more, and that is not actions that you need to do. The Amazon is the number of the algorithms that working around your exactly product listing since your stores if you will have some critical changes and you will see that these changes do not you do not control like how they are working like in the good way or not you just destroying your data. You just you couldn’t trust that these numbers that you see around the stores profits are instantly that I mean like PPC data that you could see right, because how you could understand what it’s like working good or not is like one of the way when people do the optimization run their PPC because a lot of Amazon sellers they could tell Tell me that I do the optimization just around the beats. Why just around the beats? Sometimes it’s not the best way to do because you don’t know the situation or the market, you didn’t know what your competitors have done for outstanding you around these keywords. Yeah. So it’s like a deep understanding should you do some actions are not the same as the keywords and listings, should you do this actions or not? Because sometimes you could just destroy all your current data, your current sales? Yeah, if you will just do something wrong. Because Amazon, it’s like, it’s the algorithm machine. Yeah. If some actions will destroy or change the way have you ranking right now, that could be a terrible for your business? Or another way that could be a great opportunity for reaching your results.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, yeah. I’d love to get into your process for optimizing in a moment. Just understand that a bit more. Just on this topic of relevancy. Final question on that topic. You obviously mentioned about the specific keywords, the broadness of keywords, or I suppose two questions. Firstly, how do you deal with broad keywords, because it’s a big topic that we’ve been discussing recently, inside our community is you have big, broad keywords, you know, gifts for men gifts for women, gifts for kids, whatever. You know, we’re in toys. So you know, toys for boys would be an example, you’ve got maybe like a building toy construction toy. And it’s got this sort of broad, generic keyword that doesn’t really specifically describe the product, it could describe 100 different types of products. How are you dealing with that kind of keyword, just ignoring them low bids, any particular strategy?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, it’s a great question. Because we do not work with the broad keywords. And so we do not recommend to work with the broad keywords, because you don’t know what exactly keywords you will be targeted with Amazon will be targeted to you. And it’s you, you are giving the control of your advertising, not to you, and you’re not to your settings, but to the Amazon, and Amazon will do everything that they want. Yeah. So it’s not something that we recommend for what we do. We do work with the products. But we set we grab, for example, you have a top 10 keywords around your listings, and there is like a top search volume keywords for you, right. So it’s like the top keywords, for your brands that generating you must have the sales, you could grab these keywords, or you could put them into the broad, you should grab the same keywords or all your keywords around your semantic core, and put them as the negatives to the broad and set a minimum bits minimum was like 10 cents, for example. And what you will do that will work for you as like the auto campaigns just for generating and finding new and new keywords that could be relevant and Amazon algorithms understand that your your products are relevant around these keywords. And then grab these keywords and put to the campaigns where you will in exact match type you will test them with the higher beats and see how this how you’re performing. Because if how you will like understand that that is a good keyword, you will check the number of sales, if you’ve got a chance to grab a sale was the minimum bid. Just imagine if you will have a chance to control work with the higher bid and exact or at a placement for example, and push it somewhere higher.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
So there is the way how you should understand that we spent a lot of time like most of the time on the beginning for collecting and creating a semantic core, from your competitors from your listings for your previous PPC results, we delete all the duplicates, you don’t have a chance to we do not give Amazon control of your advertising, we take control of your advertising, we show and pull like put all the keywords that we need to be ranked we need to be shown because we understand that we are relevant around these keywords, we could rank our products and grab last enter like the the number of sales that we want to have. Yes. So it’s like the way how we are working with that. So that’s why I’m not I’m not really believing into the way that you will start with the bras was hobbies collect the keywords correctly sales? Unfortunately, you did not. You didn’t know exactly how these algorithms is working and you just provide Amazon with all the actions. Yeah.
 
Ben Donovan 
Now that’s good. That’s I got about 17 questions just from that to to now ask you so just to clarify you when you’re saying put them in the broad you’re saying like Toy gifts for men put that as a broad match but negative exact gifts for men. So find related keywords to that core
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
and all other keywords that you have around your semantic core. Yeah, so they because the Bruins around the Amazon, they could bring you any keyword like Yeah. So if you need to avoid competition around your account, you should avoid that you will be somewhere you will try to push your keyword that you have in some edge group And the same you will do with the abroad. Yes. So you will have like convenient just with yourself, you will just increase the CPC around these products. It’s not it’s not so good. I’m not recommended to do that. So it’s like one of the way however, you could make a cross negative around your account around the keywords. And yeah, show us as the Amazon will show you a new product that you could add or you do not add it still to your semantic core.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. You talk about removing duplicates. Are you doing that by you do generally practice like search term isolation? So there’s only one place it’s showing up across the campaign’s?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, we do like the we do the keyword installation. So we if you see the keyword around our structure, or around whatever, like ad groups or campaigns, you will see that we have only one these keywords. Exactly. Yeah. And we absolutely know, in case of like, for example, in the case of the CTR, in the case of their performance, very this these products is like showing around the advertising. And sometimes you could crap, some top keywords and work with the placements. So your optimization will be not around the beats, for example for this keyword, but around the placements right. So even in case of like the percentage that the deal will set up? Or you will you will be absolutely sure that you are working exactly with these keywords. And if you will do some changes, or something else or keywords in another campaign, like the same will start working better because they have a heartbeat. Yes, it was. It’s like one of the way why we are working, why we are avoiding the duplicates, and why we are working with the keywords installation on the account. That is that is absolutely better for the ranking. Because you show clearly Amazon aware you are relevant, why? And what positions for you is the best? Yeah, so that is like extremely important for now, any case of the growing product?
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I’m gonna ask you about launching in a minute on that basis. But just quickly before we do, just for anybody that’s listening, and you’ve mentioned the word semantic core a few times. Can you just explain that in sort of beginners terms?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah yeah, it’s the number of keywords that you’re using around your Amazon PPC? Yeah. So it’s the keyword that you’re adding to the paid advertising on the platform. And most of the people they divided on the ad campaigns on the ad groups here for grouping them in the case of the relevancy in the case of the search volume. And we also recommend it to do and the structure, the name of it is the semantic core. Yeah, it’s one of the keywords where you’re trying to be ranked and trying to get sales.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yep. Yeah. And then on campaign structure, you mentioned breaking them down into search volume, or, you know, single keyword campaigns, what’s your kind of go to structure at the moment,
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
we have, like, the other approach is named zero to hero. So we absolutely understand that. Around the when we creating campaigns, we have from eight to 11 different ad campaigns that we’re creating for on the accounts. Some of them, for example, we have the top performing keywords, and they could be grouped as one keywords for one campaign for clearly working was the placements was these specific keywords. Also, we do have a an approach when we collect the same top performing keywords, but they but we could group them as like, for example, five keywords in one group, yeah, or 10 keywords, they should work exactly in the one as group and we will control them all together because they are same in the case of number of sales relevancy. And so we could worry that if we see that one keyword start performing much higher, we could grab it and put that to the ONE Campaign one keyword, then we have a massive impact of the other keywords that is like lowering in the case of the search volume and stuff like that. And we group them in the case of the relevancy around different ad groups. So it’s like could be a hundreds of different ad groups, where we have three 510 up to 10, maybe keywords, that’s grouping and we have a chance to make decision not around one specific keywords, but around the cluster around the group of keywords and we could say that these cluster is relevant and every single start working we will work with the beats and this cluster is irrelevant so you have a chance to increase number of your negative keywords. And like in in these the same way we have for the on our campaigns, the keywords from your search term reports and other keywords that we could read from your competitors and other keywords that we just grabbed that could be relevant as as like a test one they are working with deliver beats. And so all these campaigns they have a huge and big number of the negatives as you could understand because we are working with the duplicate and keywords insulation parts. Yes. So we we want to avoid it most of the keywords that is located around the structure they are inexact. We use your brand name and working with the friends my age. So it’s like an Oscar campaign that we do first match, because we could index exactly know how people will use your brand name. But for us, it’s like one of the great filters for the exact match type. Yeah, because you will just play with your main brand name and and abroad campaigns, yes, broadens out the negative after campaigns that we are using around the Amazon. It’s like the campaigns were essays on abroad. And I have told you that we grab top keywords and put down for creating finding new keywords, the same way do with the auto campaigns will launch them. And also put all negatives around that you have for for allowing Amazon to show us everywhere on any relevant things. And we monitor with the help of our software, we monitor the search term report finding keywords that could be relevant for us. Yeah. And put them Yeah, and put them to our search term for our semantic course for another tasks. Yeah, for checking how they will work around the campaign. So it’s like briefly, but I guess that’s difficult from if you’re listening on just.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, that’s that’s good, man. That’s good. It’s insightful. I always find it interesting to see how other people are, you know, approaching it. Do you roll all of those out on launch? Or do you just launch some of those campaigns?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, on loan sheets. It’s not like the best way maybe in the beginning to be targeted everywhere. Yeah. For the beginning, the main way that you need to have it’s like to connect your Amazon CEO was your Amazon PPC? Yeah, you need to absolutely understand how these processes working together. It’s really extremely important. Yeah. Like you’re a specialist. They should work like all together for providing some insights and data, what is the best keywords around the PPC, maybe make some focus on SEO, because some keywords, important keywords for you, they’re not ranking still. And you need to do some updates. So it’s like it’s important. And that’s why we we recommend from the beginning, be focusing right now, just on the main keywords like longtail keywords, maybe mid keywords where you could outspend grab some sales, show Amazon that you’re relevant, increase your conversion rate, collect, of course reviews, because it’s extremely important that will absolutely affect on the old results that you have around your listings. And after that you will have a chance to grow and grow your semantic core targeted on your competitors, targeted on your category, use sponsored brands and sponsored display in all our ads.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, that’s really good, man. Really good. And when it comes to new sellers coming into the market, because obviously there’s you know, you’re talking there about, you know, specialists and lots of different people involved. But if there were newer sellers coming into the market, maybe there’s some people concerned about rising costs, maybe even Well, a lot of existing sellers, you know, it’s a concern for them. What was your thoughts on these rising ad costs that we’re seeing? Is that something that’s going to continue? Is there a breaking point for that? What should sellers do about it?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
I guess here should be done a data driven decisions. And you need to understand why, like why you want to increase your Aspen, for what reason? Will it really give you any any feedback, positive feedback on your ranking? On getting more sales? Are you sure for that? You need to control a lot of numbers before you will do any create changes. Because you know, a lot of people could tell that how the profit or loss is working. That’s where it came to account. We sit numbers and we just increase their ad spend and everything is working. You know what, but no, it’s not true. Yeah, we will increase your ad spend because we will see more spaces for you to grow. Right. So we will see that you have a lot of more opportunities to boost and scale your product. Maybe we will add additional sources, whether we’re testing channels, if you’re if you’re thinking about like increasing your ad costs, for example, or you’re not sure that you’re working correctly or not just try to go around different agencies software’s for asking them for an audit. Just ask some influencers for them for an advice. Yeah, like try to get another view around your numbers, because people will start asking you what is your conversion rate? What is your net margin? Are you ready for that? Are you ready for like next few months, you will just spend on PPC and then you will rank your keywords like they will ask you a different questions that will you know trigger you in the case of other sorts, like Are you ready for that? Is it a good strategy is it’s quite clever to do that right now. Or maybe you should wait or improve something else? Yeah, that do not need any additional budgets or in so it’s like it’s Good question, because I guess the best way to get started from here is starting from asking more advanced sellers, or players on the market or agencies for advice and for their view, like point of view what you will do in the situation.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. Are you using any sort of newer strategies or placements to kind of help with those rising costs, you know, like sponsored brands sponsored display, these things helping with bringing averaging out cost? Are they getting more expensive as well?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah ofcourse, you have a lot of places around the Amazon where you get additional spent, you will, you will just for spending more, you’ll just need to add more keywords for the task, for example, or just add more competitors that you could work with around the sponsor products sponsored, brand sponsored brands for sponsored display, you have a lot of spaces on the Amazon, how to do that, how to increase your response. And we are using, for example, like more. For the maybe experienced sellers, we are playing a lot with the external traffic when you’re adding the Amazon attribution when you’re learning, adding the landing pages, and you’re launching the Google advertising based on your keywords that you have around the Amazon, you add them to the Google, you send this traffic to the landing page, grab the email, provide these people who send you an email with the promo code. And on these landing pages, you set up a lot of tags as like the Facebook pixel Google Analytics pixel as the GS, the DSP tech, and you could set up a remarketing audiences to them. Yes, so you’re building like the ecosystem? And for us, that is like one of the main approach for the experienced sellers. We want to control most of your advertising. We don’t want you to miss any Amazon listing visitor or any store, visitor. Yeah, that’s like, just exploring or discovering something else. It’s important. Yeah, it’s important for now to, to control it. And so of course, that will be additional spent for you. But the in general, that will be a brand building approach for you.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, definitely, definitely a you see a much of a because obviously, you can send Google traffic directly to an Amazon listing. You’re mentioning their landing page to collect more info. Do you see that harming conversion rates a lot? Obviously, it’s only recently that you’ve been able to track it. But
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
yeah, but it’s a long term, way how you could grow your Amazon brands. It’s it’s not like a quick results, because well, you could just you could just calculate the number of resources that I’ve just mentioned. Yeah, in this story, and you could understand that what we do just providing Amazon listing was the relevant traffic for our brands. And we collect their emails, we collect them for the remarketing campaigns on different social media. And for the DSP. And then if we’re not like, get a chance to close them like today, or during the next 14 days till we have the attribution on Amazon, we’ll we’ll have a chance to reach them during the year or next five years till they will be in the remarketing list. Yeah. So there is the way how you are growing your brand, in the case of your community, in the case of number of people who know you, who could see you on Amazon, out of Amazon, in social media, in some maybe apps, but we are not allowed to work with apps, but still, it’s like debate how you’re building your brand, right? So it’s like the long term. And we could measure that. Like these brands. We have started without any additional things and we just work with the Amazon and these brands. We work with the Amazon data, Amazon, DSP, Facebook, Pinterest, Google landing pages, email marketing and all this stuff. Of course, the second one will will win. Yeah, in the long term, but not in the short term because a lot of people will came to me and say like Vitalii we just work in in different ads. We just like sending some traffic but we don’t see Ross on on each of them. Like a good one. But it’s it’s not. It’s not like clever to calculate only one way for for getting the sales and traffic.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, no, I’m a big believer that now in 2022 and beyond. You know, Amazon is as much an acquisition channel as it is a sales channel. You know, you’re acquiring customers, you might not make profit on the front end for a lot of the sales but you if you do the right things on the back end, you can acquire customers and then continue to build your brand. And yeah, I think that’s what smart long term business builders are doing. Right. You got a couple of questions on that to I’ve got some more PPC questions I want to finish up with but just on that strategy. Firstly on the initial landing page email collection promotion. Are you given them like a discount code? to use on Amazon,
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Right, Yeah.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. And so straight to a product detail page.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, yeah. Nothing did just for the Amazon listing with the help of the Amazon tribution. Yeah. So it’s like the direct link that help us to collect and understand, did we get a chance, any any purchases, any sale here, any Add to Cart, for example, then we have a setup, we set up the Amazon DSP for grabbing people here and divide them into different audiences, just visit our listings and acciden or just visit our listing and add to cart is like another audiences and help us to divide these people. But we still don’t know who they are. Right? So it’s like the just the cold audiences, but but they know some, but they have our promotion. So it’s like the more to how to audience. And then in the case of the number of the purchases with the help of the promo code, you could understand how good your promotions working, because sometimes people could crap the promo code and just buy and as reporters, different competitors, or anything like that. And problem is not around the ads. Yeah, you should you should understand how because you know, like, generally, maybe it’s not like the the the answer to your question, but people should understand that we are working with the two big audiences, one audiences around. It’s like sellers who, visitors of the Amazon who’s who like buy products on Amazon, they start their research from Amazon. And they, they like a big fan of this marketplace. And another big audience is people who hate Amazon, they start and do their own research on Google on social media everywhere. And maybe if they don’t have a chance to find something, they will go to the Amazon. Yeah. So it’s like a different types of people that we’re working with, since it’s like too big a huge groups of people that you’re working with. And now you are as the Amazon brands, you want to go to the DTC and say that, hey, guys, we also have the website. We also have social media. And we have a lot of sales on the Amazon. It’s okay for you to buy it, you know. So it’s like they have you’re presenting your products, and you should understand that.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, so then with the retargeting, so if you’re using like Facebook, pixel email marketing, then you’re bringing them back to your website, as opposed to Amazon.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
There could be so yeah, we do we do the A B test here. So the the main idea of the launch in the arts is that when you want to go to the external traffic, our main recommendation is to have all needed things for launching the external traffic, for example, it’s like the minimum as the social media, your websites, like all things should be done, and it should be possible to make a purchase here. And that could be a great opportunity to find out what’s very, you have the highest like ROI, for example, from your advertising. Yeah. Yeah. What’s audience buying more like people who have seen you on Amazon, and they they go to buy on your website? It’s like the, you know, the, the understanding the behavior of your customers how they do that. It’s it’s extremely important to understand to track and to work with that, but you couldn’t work just was one part. Yeah. Because you there is not a full picture that you could see.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, yeah. And then for the Google ads for that kind of strategy, are you doing anything, particularly ninja there? Or is it sort of your standard keyword targeting? You know, basic discount on Amazon kind of ad?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Based on the what brands? have on their website? Yeah, it’s important to understand it’s good to be, for example, at the shopping campaigns, yeah. Do we have the Google Merchant Center where we could crap all the data around your products and add them to the, to the first page when people like typing? I don’t know, like, some, some form football will like balls or anything like that? You know? So that is like the way how we could, we could work with that. And also, the important part is that we could add the dynamic remarketing, we could add the display ads based on Do you have enough content for us to create ads? Or maybe you have done something? So on Google, we have a lot of opportunities, much more opportunities that on Amazon, we could use the YouTube ads, for example, to show your short videos, or call to action bottoms puts or somewhere or some custom images. We have a lot of opportunities, but the main question how that could be relevant for you and around your niche? And do you have enough creators and materials for us to work on was that Yeah, is that should be relevant for your brand in general?
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, that’s really good. Really insightful on that stuff. Obviously, lots more we could talk about there. But I know you’re a busy man running a company. So just a brief question. Final sort of PPC question. You mentioned earlier about placement and that’s again, been something that’s been discussed a fair bid, you know, of late and the strategy of pulling out specific keywords to then be able to control the placement of them. Is that something that you’re you’re saying that you would as a regular thing, you would take out a well, a high performing keyword, put it in a single keyword campaign, and then adjust the weighting of top of search placement. That’s the strategy you’re referring to.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, that could be so but you need to understand, should you compete on the, like, first page on the top of search around this keyword? Yeah. Because if you will just grab the top performing keywords and put them to the first page, maybe there will be like a bad decision for you now, because you will compete on the high beats with the top players, you will have my higher CPC or instantly that your conversion is not enough for that. So obviously, you know, a lot of other metrics could be not acceptable for you for now. And you will see that your results is not good. Yeah. When you’re increasing bonds, when you are on your position, for example, on the bottom of the first page, that could be the age, you could generate more sales. So it’s like the different way should be, should you adjust your settings to be on the first page? And are you ready for that? Yeah, around these specific keywords. So that is extremely important for you to understand. What is your conversion rate? What is your how Amazon see that? Allow you to be there? Because for Amazon, it’s extremely important to show on the top sellers where they could like, get more profits from them. Yeah, because Amazon gets fees, Amazon gets ads. And for the for Amazon, it’s more relevance if they will show some top players that could be converted my shoot was higher, like possibility than you. Yeah. Or if you will be there, you will pay much more. Yeah. So it’s like it’s different for Amazon, you should understand this, like how this algorithm is working. So the best way is like to check your bread analytics, for example, to check the conversion share, click share, to see if you could if you could outspend some of your competitors, or you’re right now beating them around like these two numbers. Yeah, you could push it, of course, you have a lot of space for that. If not, try to try to not like do that for just a test.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. For someone that wants to test placement testing for the first time do you would you recommend just try and start with like, maybe one keyword or how would you
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
recommend start? Yeah, one campaign one campaign one keywords, that will be my main recommendations to get started, you could start with the top performing keyword that you have. And maybe you narrow it to just play only with one placement, just put that on like top for example 10% and see what the results right to try to check that booth 2030 And maybe not higher than 50%. If you’re testing, if you’re sure that that could be absolutely enough for you. And that is working in the case of your economy that you have run the account. In the case of your net margin in case of your spending your conversion, you could go higher, sometimes you could put like a one hangers placement, and that could also work really good for you.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. If you have that keyword in a scaling campaign already with a few other keywords, maybe for instance, as an exact match, and you’re pulling it out, put it in another campaign exact match to do this placement testing. What are you doing with the one that’s in the scale of campaign already? Just negative, exact that?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, you could just you could just, like, turn off the ads around that, like post for that for a while. But that will be for for avoiding the duplicates, right?
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah. You’re not worried about the performance of it?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
If you will do like it was TPK that could absolutely work for you. I mean, like if you will do the keyword campaign that could be absolutely fine. Like no words for that. Yeah. Just then sure enough,
 
Ben Donovan 
I agree with you. I just know there’s people that freak out about this age campaign that’s mature and you know, Amazon clrvs And I just see it as a key word and Amazon is gonna show it
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
you could you could just change it I mean, that’s you could save the cell group and these keywords but turn off and add them as another group for other to use like, if you’re worried about that, you could just change the algorithm but still reach your final
 
Ben Donovan 
goal. Yeah, but you don’t think I should worry about it.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
No worries about that. It’s like you know, sometimes when we rebuild the account structure we work on for not turning off the keywords but they are working for more than two years or something like that. And we just like try to build something around them. Yeah. Like not for like, pausing any any data or statistics and that’s all So that is also the way how you could work with that.
 
Ben Donovan 
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Oh, I feel like I’ve got so many more questions, but we’ve already been going for 40 minutes plus, so I’m gonna I’m gonna save those maybe for another day. You kind of have shown us the answer to this question. But my question to you really is about Profit Whales. Why is Profit Whales a great solution for carrying all of this out? I mean, like I say, you’ve given some great answers shown us you know, exactly what you’re talking about. But as a company, what why do you believe it’s a great solution for for brand owners?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah. So you know, we are, we’re the Amazon nerds. And we are about the holistic approach. If you see that that could be a way how you could grow your business, that’s our that you have like some some of the same sorts, and you are speaking not as the Amazon seller. You can just as like the Amazon brand that you want to scale your rent on and out of Amazon, and you have quality products, you have good reviews and you want to grow your brand. We’ll be glad to check that we’ll be glad to help you on these points and to to grow you and to grow like together. Yeah, on this road. But we are not like working just for collecting clients. We want to choose brands with whom we want to work we every time for wedding was our feedback. Are you ready? Or you’re not ready for the growth? What about your inventory and plants? So for us, it’s important to get on board a good brands, great brands that want to scale their businesses. And so we are ready to help if we’re we will not have a chance to do and help you right now will probably was the roadmap of action. So yeah,
 
Ben Donovan 
yeah, that’s good, man. And the thing I have liked the most about what you say is that holistic approach, you know, there’s a lot of PPC agencies out there, but the stuff you’re talking about, I think a lot of them wouldn’t even you know, go near so I think that’s a great USP so thank you for sharing about that in great detail. It’s been super helpful and I’m sure answered a lot of questions. If people do want to find out more about Profit Whales where’s the best place to go?
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
You could check any social media as like the Profit Whales and find me as the Vitalii I will not tell my surname because that will be difficult for you maybe to find a type but yeah, you will have a chance I will be one Vitalii around the Profit Whales. And on our website as the ProfitWhales.com You could use any form like contact us or any other for getting content and yeah, just just mentioned that you are from the brand builder, and it will help by chance to help you with that.
 
Ben Donovan 
Awesome, man. Thank you. Yeah, we’ll leave links in the show notes and description obviously as well. So people can find those easily. Vitalii, thank you so much for being on the show. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it. It’s like a PPC consultation for me and hopefully some other people in the background and got some value to them.
 
Vitalii Khyzhniak 
Yeah, perfect. Nice to meet you, man. It was really nice. Thank you.
 
Ben Donovan 
Awesome. Alright guys. Well, thanks for joining us for the show today. I’m sure you’ve got loads of notes there loads to work on from that session. And I hope you have enjoyed it. If you have don’t forget to hit Like subscribe, leave a review all those good things, and we’ll see in the next episode next week.